OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[cleardirect]

You west pilots now expect far more from USAPA than you previously expected from alpa and your own west pilot group efforts to negotiate and handle grievances with your former Franke taught CEO's.

It is not the Unions that represented you, it is the Franke taught management you idiots. They have your non major airline pilot number.

News Release​

Release #02.007
January 16, 2002

America West Pilots Call for Return to Mediated Negotiations
PHOENIX — The pilots of America West Airlines, represented by the Air Line Pilots Association, International (ALPA), today requested that the National Mediation Board quickly resume mediated negotiations between the union and America West management for a new contract. "Management has shown their commitment to compensating the government through the terms of their loan guarantee," said Eric Edwards, vice chairman of the America West unit of ALPA. "Now it is time for management to show the same commitment to the employees who have repeatedly sacrificed and invested in this airline by resuming good faith negotiations with us."

As part of the agreement with the Air Transportation Stabilization Board, America West committed to keeping labor costs to those outlined in the company’s seven-year business plan. "Management has an obligation to negotiate with the unions representing America West employees no matter what commitments they make to the government," Edwards said. The pilots believe that this condition imposed by the federal government could interfere with their collective bargaining rights and are exploring all legal options if those rights are restricted.
"The federal government, which is mediating our negotiations as a neutral third party, could become a major shareholder in the airline," Edwards said. "This could present a conflict of interest that would compromise our legal bargaining rights."

The pilots, who have been negotiating with America West since February 2000, lag considerably behind their counterparts at other major carriers despite having much more demanding schedules and constraints within which to fly. They are seeking to address the following issues in their negotiations:

• No pension and no retiree medical benefits;
• Scheduling enhancements that increase productivity while on duty and, at the same time, restore sensible rest requirements;
• A commitment from management to reverse the punitive attitude toward employees and comply with the collective bargaining agreement, which they have failed to do as evidenced by the more than 300 grievances filed by pilots in 2001 alone;
• Job protection measures that limit management’s intention to outsource the pilots’ flying careers to smaller carriers; and
•Hourly pay rates that are as much as 74 percent below major airline industry average.​

Including the 1,800 America West pilots, ALPA represents 66,000 members at 46 airlines in the United States and Canada.

# # #​

ALPA Contact: Scott Sherrin, (602) 306-4100

Gees for a guy that does not work here you sure spend a lot of time on this board and have access to a lot of stuff.

But this is the best you can do something from 2002. 5 months after Sept 11. what kind fo shape was US Airways in Jan 2002?

what kind of shape was Us Airways in May 2005?

 

[EastUS1]

How was it that you got a pension to even be able to be taken by the court?

It according to you all ALPA did was take your money. WHY did it take you so long to get rid of them?
Stop your BS.

1) The court didn't take it. The invovled judge even noted that he couldn't do so. The fine, "intelligent" and all knowing, utterly spineless alpa dipsticks GAVE it away in literally the middle of the night, without ANY chance for a membership vote. Where was mighty alpa "national" when the pensions of their supposedly "represented" airlines were being stolen? Yay alpa! In the future it'd save you further foolishness to stick to things you know even the slightest bit about...which, thus far, has been routinely demonstrated to be precious little indeed. You insist on arguing your fantasies against actual history and real experiences.

2) As previously suspected; you really just haven't been around in this industry for very long...or you might actually have some small clue about what you're mindlessly running off at the mouth about. Maintain whatever bizarre fantasies you choose to lovingly embrace and clearly, desperately need. Nothing you've ever predicted or even mentioned, that I know of at least, has come to be. If it were indeed the case that you had even the slightest clues as to what you incessently offer in the way of comical "thought"...that wouldn't be true, now would it? If you wish to compare established track records in estimating future events as they've unfolded during this lengthy mess...well...no need for you to be bashfull at all. Go ahead..dazzle me with your superior successes there...or even point to a single circumstance or event that's transpired as you had imagined....? 😉

In fairness though...and largely for laughs, I'll admit; since you've evident desire to argue for alpa...well..what did it ever do for YOU? 😉 Are you particularly thrilled with their glorious "policies" and "processes" that left the steaming nic poison "pill"? I know, I know...the current mess is all the fault of the evil east, etc..ad nauseum but; wouldn't it have been nice if, instead of ignoring any and ALL reasonable, supposed "union" responsibility for integrating two groups under it's same...ummm...."representation"...alpa had actually done it's job and made possible a reasonable and acceptable integration?...Or are you just simply thrilled to death with how things have worked out here, since they didn't?

As for your punk-azzed "Stop your BS."? “Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.” Aristophanes

 

[Claxon]

Gees for a guy that does not work you you sure spend a lot of time on this board and have access to a lot of stuff.

But this is the best you can do something from 2002. 5 months after Sept 11. what kind fo shape was US Airways in Jan 2002?

what kind of shape was Us Airways in May 2005?

May 2005, one moment please let me check. Oh ok here we go with your information request in alpa speak;;

Special MEC Meeting​

Pittsburgh​

Day 1, Wednesday, May 18, 2005

10:00 Bill Pollock requests closed caucus with MEC only - for 10 minutes
Meeting called to order @ 10:55

Roll Call

Swiatkowski Jones
Cross Svendsen
Sauer proxy Boveri Baier
Guerrero Belz
Crocker Ciabattoni
Brookman Wagner

Bill Pollock Chairman, Kim Snider Vice-Chairman (absent-in training), Mike D’Angelo MEC S/T (absent-in training), Richard Seltzer, Jeffery Small (ALPA Attorney/Contract Administrator), Dan Scola

AI 05-44 Presentation by Richard Seltzer to the MEC Concerning the US Airways Management Proposed Retention Bonus Program

Closed session 11:45

12:30 recess to lunch
13:40 back in session

POO Brookman how we are going to run a meeting without any officers present.

J Small- an election needs to be conducted.
Nominations open for election of a Chairman Pro Tem

Cross nominates Dan Scola
Svendsen seconds

Brookman nominates Don Baier
Crocker Second
Baier withdraws his name from consideration.

Nominations closed
Election of a chairman Pro Tem
Dan Scola Unanimously Elected Chairman Pro Tem.

AI 05-45 Discussion and Possible Action(s) Response(s) by the MEC Concerning Management’ Proposed Retention Bonus Program
Motion: Crocker/Ciabattoni
WHEREAS this ethically and economically challenged management is requesting 55 million dollars for additional compensation as an incentive for management personnel to stay with the corporation in case of a merger, and
WHEREAS it is decidedly our opinion that this management is, indeed, part of the problem and unlikely to be part of the solution, and
WHEREAS loyalty and competency derive from character and skill and not the bank, and
WHEREAS our MEC Chairman's stance relating to compensation requires it to be in line with the LCCs compensation, and
WHEREAS it should be noted that the LCC’s management generated money for their company to recover and prosper, not to be squandered in bankruptcy two times in two years because of management’s failure to understand either our industry or our company, and
WHEREAS our employee groups have given cash and quality of life give backs to keep this airline afloat with this same management at the helm who cannot yet cite a successful program or vision for the future, and
WHEREAS after our givebacks in the first bankruptcy, this management gave an astoundingly greedy 35 million dollars in retirement to the original executives, the very ones that landed us here to begin with while decimating the retirement of pilots that had loyally and competently worked for this company for decades.
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED this MEC use every resource at its power to convince the bankruptcy judge to disallow this wanton money grab for our
management, and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED we direct our Board of Director member to work in conjunction with the other labor board members to persuade our
directors that this compensation will do nothing to restore the company to profitability and the reward for incompetence should be severe enough to restore order and cause good people to want to stay.
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED we work with the other labor groups, ALPA international, and AFL-CIO to convince the judge this is a flagrant money grab by our management, and
BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED we take this to the court of public opinion to oppose this attempt.

Discussion

1410 Recess to redo resolution
1535 Back in session
Substitute Motion: Baier/Svendsen
WHEREAS the company has filed a motion seeking approval of a transaction retention program, and
WHEREAS the US Airways pilots have made a historic $7 Billion investment, through pay, benefits and work rule concessions to keep this airline afloat with a management at the helm who has not successfully managed the airline,
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED this MEC use every resource at its power to convince the bankruptcy court to disallow this motion by and for our management, and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED we recommend our member of the Board of Director work in conjunction with the other labor board members to persuade the Directors that this compensation will do nothing to restore the company to profitability and should be opposed, and
BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED we work with the other labor groups, ALPA International, and AFL-CIO to convince the bankruptcy court of the excess of this proposal and that this proposal be disallowed.
Substitute Motion Passes Unanimously

Motion: Crocker/Ciabattoni: Motion to accept the following two items as late agenda items (takes ¾ vote)
Motion passes unanimously

AI 05-46 Caribbean Flying (Late Item)
Motion: Swaitowski/Svendsen
WHEREAS in accordance with AI-05-17, the Negotiating Committee met with the Company to discuss the issue of Caribbean flying report times, and
WHEREAS the Company and the MEC find it beneficial to change the Caribbean flying report time to match the domestic flying report time,
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the MEC directs the Negotiating Committee to enter in the appropriate agreement to enact the desired change at the earliest possible time.

15:45 Recess
15:56 Back in session

Baier editorial
WHEREAS in accordance with AI-05-17, the Negotiating Committee met with the Company to discuss the issue of Caribbean flying report times, and
WHEREAS the Company and the MEC find it beneficial to change the Caribbean flying report time to match the domestic flying report time,
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the MEC directs the Negotiating Committee to enter into negotiations to obtain a Letter of Agreement with the desired change at the earliest possible time.
Motion passes unanimously

AI 05-47 Permanent Bids (Late Item)
Motion: Crocker/Caibattoni
WHEREAS in accordance to our contract, the Scheduling Committee can only make the number of blocks as there are permanent bids, and
WHEREAS Resource Planning has consistently made the permanent bid less than the total flying time available, and
WHEREAS if the Scheduling Committee could use the extra time to create more primary lines, thereby giving more pilots the use of SAP, vacation, adjustment period, and overall quality of life,
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED the MEC directs the Scheduling Committee and the Negotiating Committee to work with management to create as many primary lines as possible.
Motion Jones/Svendsen
Move to postpone to 2Q 05 meeting
Passes Unanimously.

16:54 Closed session for informational briefing.
17:34 Without objection, back into open session.
17:35 Meeting Adjourned.



Special MEC Meeting
PIT Crowne Plaza
May 19, 2005 Day 1

9:30 Meeting Reconvenes
Roll Call

Swiatkowski Jones
Cross Svendsen
Sauer proxy Boveri Baier
Guerrero Belz
Crocker (Absent) Ciabattoni
Brookman Wagner
​

Bill Pollock MEC Chairman, Kim Snider MEC Vice-Chairman, Mike D’Angelo MEC S/T (absent-in training) Jeffery Small (ALPA Attorney/Contract Administrator), Doug Mowery, Jack Greenhall, Ted Schott, John Feldvary, Chris Beebe ALPA National VP Finance, Dan Scola

Peter J. Solomon Company
http://www.pjsolomon.com/
Ken Baronoff representing PJ Solomon ….investment banking services

End of presentation. 10:30
End of Q’s and A’s. 11:11

11:12 Recess
11:20 Back in session

Milestone Adivsors
http://www.milestonecap.com/

Gene Weil CEO
Eric Lemer
Michael McCloskey, Milestone Advisors, LLC

1245 Recess for lunch
1340 Back in session

Merger Committee interviews.

John DuBarry
Don McMillian
Don Iorio

14:17
14:45 break
15:10 back in session

Negotiating Committee update on the MDA situation.
Doug Mowery
Ted Schott
Jack Greenhall

1521 Closed session.
1548 During closed session, BP without objection, Dan Scola will run the meeting.
No objection noted. Dan Scola now Chairman Pro Tem of the MEC.
1545 Pollock and Snider leave to be on a conference call.

16:20 open session

16:32 Without objection closed session.
17:08 open session

Merger with America West formally announced

1740 Closed session
1833 open session
1835 recessed until 09:00 5/20.


Special MEC Meeting
PIT Crowne Plaza
Day 2, May 20, 2005

9:10 Meeting reconvened
Roll Call
Swiatkowski Jones
Cross Svendsen
Sauer proxy Boveri Baie
Guerrero Belz
Crocker (Absent) Ciabattoni
Brookman Wagner

Bill Pollock MEC Chairman, Kim Snider MEC Vice-Chairman, Mike D’Angelo MEC S/T (unable to attend-in training), Jeffery Small (ALPA Attorney/Contract Administrator)
Michael Glanzer (Investment Banker), Doug Mowery, Jack Greenhall, John Feldvary, Chris Beebe ALPA National VP Finance, Dan Scola

Merger Council Interviews
Dan Katz
Katz & Ranzman

10:45 Break
11:00 Back in session

Michael Glanzer
Glanzer & Co

12:10 Richard Obermeyer Interview for the Merger committee

12:25 Lunch
13:10 back in session

Discussion over the Glass letter concerning VM/DH

POO Brookman – discussion is not on agenda
POO well taken

Jones/Baier: Move that this item be accepted as a late agenda item.
Motion passes

Pollock - without objection, we will take up as a late agenda item as the last order of business.

Phil Carey - Interviews for the Merger committee.

Pilots who have expressed interest in being on the Merger committee.
Lew Milner
Bill Stockburger
Ode Crossman (MDA who came off the CDL)
Keven Berry(sp)
Mark Butler

Staffing of the Merger Committee

Resolution:
Merger Committee Election
WHEREAS US Airways has announced that it is merging with America West Airlines, and
WHEREAS the Merger Committee is presently understaffed,
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the US Airways MEC elect as many members as deemed necessary to appropriately staff the Merger Committee.

1:47 without objection…closed session
1348 open session

1400 Alison Slutsky & Kennedy PC.
Wes Kennedy

1425 End of interview
1426 Closed session

1500 break…

1508 back in session open

William Wilder (WW)
Baptiste & Wilder
www.rpwilderjr.com

1539 End of interview
1540 Break

1555 closed session

1617 caucus
1645 closed session
1646 Pollock without objection…open session

POPP John Feldvary

Conversation tonight and today, based on information received, I will verbally resign from the merger committee effective immediately. I think you need to elect a member today, and then fill my vacancy down the road. That’s where you need to go. Next week, I will personally assure the AWA pilots that they will receive my undivided attention as well as the US Airways pilots. This is for the good of this MEC, this pilot group, and this institution. With that, I am going home.

Standing ovation.

1652 recess
1700 back in session

Motion: Baier/Sevndsen
WHEREAS US Airways has announced that it is merging with America West Airlines, and
WHEREAS Captain John Feldvary is faithfully serving both the US Airways and the America West pilots as their ALPA Executive Vice-President, and
WHEREAS Captain Feldvary had served the US Airways Merger Committee, and
WHEREAS Captain Feldvary’s service in prominent positions of responsibility within the ALPA leadership structure, including service as the ALPA National Vice-President of Finance, are an important asset for both the US Airways and America West pilots he serves, and
WHEREAS Captain Feldvary has indicated his desire to continue to serve the US Airways and America West pilots as their ALPA Executive Vice-President,
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the US Airways MEC elect a replacement for Captain Feldvary on the Merger Committee, and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the US Airways MEC thank John for his service to the US Airways pilots as a member of the Merger Committee, and
BE IT FINALLY RESOLVED that the US Airways MEC elect a third member for the Merger Committee.
Motion passes on a voice vote.

Pollock suggests to proceed into a committee of the whole

1726 Committee of the whole:
1745 back in session

1748 Resolution: selection of merger council - Katz

AI 05-50 Merger Counsel Selection
Motion: Swiatkowski/Crocker
WHEREAS US Airways has announced that it is merging with America West Airlines, and
WHEREAS it is in the best interests of the US Airways pilots that the MEC secure the services of merger counsel to assist the MEC as we go forward,
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the MEC selects Dan Katz of Katz and Ranzman, P.C. to serve as the MEC’s merger counsel regarding the America West merger, and
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the MEC instructs ALPA National Legal to negotiate an appropriate agreement with Mr. Katz to implement this resolution.
Motion Passes on a voice vote


AI 05-51 Investment Banker Selection
Motion: Cross/Jones
WHEREAS US Airways has announced that it is merging with America West Airlines, and
WHEREAS it is in the best interests of the US Airways pilots that the MEC secure the services of an investment banker to assist the MEC as we go forward,
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the MEC select Michael Glanzer of Glanzer & Company to serve as the MEC’s investment banker regarding the America West merger. And
BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that the MEC instructs ALPA National Legal to negotiate an appropriate agreement with Michael Glanzer of Glanzer & Company to implement this resolution.
Discussion

Motion: Brookman/Wagner
WHEREAS MG is under contract to provide Investment Banking Services through the end of June 2005,
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that the MEC postpone action selecting an investment banker until the 2nd quarter MEC meeting.

18:27 five minute break…
1833 back

Substitute motion fails

Brookman - division
Pollock - division is called and is in order.

Swiatkowski Y
Jones Y
Crocker N
Caibattoni N
Cross Y
Svendsen Y
Brookman N
Wagner N
Guerrero Y
Belz Y
Boveri Y
Baier Y

8 Yes 4 No
Motion Passes
Michael Glanzer is approved as our investment banker

POPP Brookman I don’t know who is going to bring it; I’d like to make it a committee of the whole…and do this by acclamation... and elect another member at the 2[sup]nd[/sup] q meeting.

1838 Recess two minutes…
1846 back in session

AI 05-48 Election of Merger Committee Member
Motion: Svendsen/Brookman
WHEREAS US Airways has announced that it is merging with America West Airlines, and
WHEREAS it is in the best interest of the US Airways pilots that the MEC staff the Merger Committee at this time,
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that in accordance with Article VI, Section 2 of the US Airways MEC Policy Manual, the MEC elect Phil Carey as a member of the merger Committee.

Pollock - for clarification, if passed, Phil is elected a member of the merger committee

Baier Amendment or an editorial. Change the last sentence to read…“the MEC elects Phil Carey as a member of the merger committee and election of the third member to the committee at the 2Q 2005 meeting.” If that is acceptable, I would agree with the idea of moving it by acclamation.

Accepted by the makers as an editorial.

WHEREAS US Airways has announced that it is merging with America West Airlines, and
WHEREAS it is in the best interest of the US Airways pilots that the MEC staff the Merger Committee at this time,
THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED that in accordance with Article VI, Section 2 of the US Airways MEC Policy Manual, the MEC elect Phil Carey as a member of the merger Committee and election of the third member to the committee at the 2Q 2005 MEC meeting.
Pollock Without objection, the record will reflect that the resolution is passed by acclamation.
Passes by acclamation.

1859 BP without objection – closed session
1918 without objection – open session
1919 seeing no further business before the body, this meeting is adjourned.

 

[cleardirect]

May 2005, one moment please let me check. Oh ok here we go with your information request in alpa speak;;

Guess you just proved yourself a liar.

You have said that you are not a pilot at Us Airways yet it did not take you 20 minutes to did up an east MEC rant from 2005.

Come on try and tell the truth. What position do you or did you hold with usapa?

You are nothing but a usapa shill.

 

[Claxon]

Guess you just proved yourself a liar.

You have said that you are not a pilot at Us Airways yet it did not take you 20 minutes to did up an east MEC rant from 2005.

Come on try and tell the truth. What position do you or did you hold with usapa?

You are nothing but a usapa shill.

It took 12 minutes. I would have been more expedient, but had to leave for a moment to express my views regarding the west's situation. It was not an East rant, it was factual information I posted.

I suggest you buy a second grade English book for a reference.

 

[cleardirect]

1) The court didn't take it. The invovled judge even noted that he couldn't do so. The fine, "intelligent" and all knowing, utterly spineless alpa dipsticks GAVE it away in literally the middle of the night, without ANY chance for a membership vote. Where was mighty alpa "national" when the pensions of their supposedly "represented" airlines were being stolen? Yay alpa! In the future it'd save you further foolishness to stick to things you know even the slightest bit about...which, thus far, has been routinely demonstrated to be precious little indeed. You insist on arguing your fantasies against actual history and real experiences.

2) As previously suspected; you really just haven't been around in this industry for very long...or you might actually have some small clue about what you're mindlessly running off at the mouth about. Maintain whatever bizarre fantasies you choose to lovingly embrace and clearly, desperately need. Nothing you've ever predicted or even mentioned, that I know of at least, has come to be. If it were indeed the case that you had even the slightest clues as to what you incessently offer in the way of comical "thought"...that wouldn't be true, now would it? If you wish to compare established track records in estimating future events as they've unfolded during this lengthy mess...well...no need for you to be bashfull at all. Go ahead..dazzle me with your superior successes there...or even point to a single circumstance or event that's transpired as you had imagined....? 😉

In fairness though...and largely for laughs, I'll admit; since you've evident desire to argue for alpa...well..what did it ever do for YOU? 😉 Are you particularly thrilled with their glorious "policies" and "processes" that left the steaming nic poison "pill"? I know, I know...the current mess is all the fault of the evil east, etc..ad nauseum but; wouldn't it have been nice if, instead of ignoring any and ALL reasonable, supposed "union" responsibility for integrating two groups under it's same...ummm...."representation"...alpa had actually done it's job and made possible a reasonable and acceptable integration?...Or are you just simply thrilled to death with how things have worked out here, since they didn't?

As for your punk-azzed "Stop your BS."? “Youth ages, immaturity is outgrown, ignorance can be educated, and drunkenness sobered, but stupid lasts forever.” Aristophanes

Let me think. Should I believe you and your biased opinion of what happened or should I believe someone that was actually there and testifying under oath????

I think I will believe the under oath statements from the LOA 93 snap back arbitration.

Q. And did the parties, in fact, reach an agreement regarding the termination of the pilot pension plan?

7 A. Well, not immediately we didn't.
8 We fought the termination notices and the
9 idea that they could simply come out from under the
10 deficit at all stages of the federal government.
11 We tried to engage the Department of
12 Transportation and the White House and some aid to
13 extend the deficit over a three-year period to a
14 30-year period.
15 We tried to engage legislative branch and
16 Senator Spectrum and Senator Fore (phonetic) and
17 others for legislation.
18 Because, apart from the deficit, that --
19 the deficit was being created in part because the
20 contingent liability interest rate was dropping.
21 The 30-year T-bill was no longer being sold by the
22 government, the benchmark, the CLIR would be used
1 from.
2 And the legislation that Congress had
3 passed temporarily three years earlier, was expiring
4 in 2003. So there was a large argument over which
5 interest rate they would use to make a present value
6 calculation for that stream of payments.
7 There were number of different assumptions
8 going around. We engaged Congress. And we also
9 engaged the bankruptcy court in an extensive hearing
10 there in Alexandria where we opposed the Company's
11 alleged -- their attempt to meet the financial
12 distress test set up in ERISA itself so that the
13 pension benefit could be terminated.
14 And also their allegation at the time that
15 ALPA had in fact already agreed to the termination
16 of the pilot defined benefit plan, which we had not.
17 And we fought that in the bankruptcy court.
18 And that lasted throughout February. And
19 at the end of February, beginning -- I believe it
20 was March 1, the judge issued a bench decision
21 wherein they agreed with us, with ALPA, that we had
22 not agreed to the termination of our plan in the
1 previous concessions, that is the summer
2 Restructuring Agreement, or Letter 84.
3 But he did in fact find that the Company
4 had met the standards of the law, the ERISA law, had
5 met the standards of financial distress.
6 And just that finding was devastating for
7 us. And -- because largely, it meant that the PBGC
8 could have come in and involuntarily terminated our
9 plan whether we liked it or not.
10 And so with that as a backdrop, the MEC
11 resolved that we, the Negotiating Committee, should
12 engage the Company at the bargaining table to see if
13 we could reach an agreement if we were to agree to
14 the termination of our DB plan, agreement to the
15 terms of the follow-on DC plan, which we were also
16 made aware then because it was a follow-on plan,
17 would also have to be approved by the PBGC.
18 So by mid-March of 2003, we were engaged
19 with the Company negotiators over the terms of what
20 would become Letter of Agreement 85 for a defined
21 contribution plan for the pilots, which we would
22 call the individually tailored defined contribution
1 plan.
2 And also agreed to the termination of the
3 defined benefit plan.

ALPA did not give youe pension away. The PBGC agreed it was distressed.

ALPA negotiated an exchange of the befined benifit for a defined contirbution in LOA 85. Did the east pilots get to vote on LOA 85? You did get to bote to decide if you wanted to keep your pension or not.

The choice was agree to a defined contibution and give up or pension or lose your pesnion with nothing in return.

Those are the under oath facts not your uneducated opinion.

 

[EastUS1]

Let me think.

ALPA did not give youe pension away.

Does the word "COULD" have any meaning to you? By your own glorious BS: " it meant that the PBGC could have come in and involuntarily terminated our plan whether we liked it or not. Look at that again = "could have" not DID...again, for the incurably oblivious everywhere = COULD HAVE....NOT DID!..and even the "could have" is only being touted there by the very same spineless jackazzes that just gave it away themselves. It's sure a good thing that they just immediately caved and instantly just gave it all away...Who knows?...It otherwise "could have" really gone badly. 😉

The agency that gave it up in the middle of the night, without so much as even the tiniest input from the line pilots, much less ANY VOTE was your beloved alpa....PERIOD!

The confession of this follows from the same morons desperately then trying to justify their cowardly and utterly stupid, instant capitulation: "the MEC resolved that we, the Negotiating Committee, should engage the Company at the bargaining table to see if we could reach an agreement if we were to agree to the termination of our DB plan,..." IF WE WERE TO AGREE TO THE TERMINATION.

cleardirect: "ALPA did not give your pension away."...? Seriously? Do you need this part again? = "IF WE WERE TO AGREE TO THE TERMINATION". Learn to read someday, if at all possible. Per your: "Let me think...." Well...Good luck with that ever happening. Don't strain yourself overly while trying, as it's clearly and directly not your forte.

cleardirect: "I think I will believe..." Only whatever suits the needs of your sustained life in Fantasyland obviously. Have fun in there and give my best to Goofy and Dumbo. 😉

 

[EastUS1]

... wherein they agreed with us, with ALPA, that we had
not agreed to the termination of our plan in the
previous concessions,

PS: Of course not but again this problem you have with words comes up = the previous concessions,........
but not the big, be-end-all of concessions they subsequently DID make.

Kindly note that the key word there is previous.

 

[john john]

•Hourly pay rates that are as much as 74 percent below major airline industry average.​

No question that HP pay and benefits were below major airline industry average. One only has to look at the HP passenger service group

HP tried with US agent group had to take a strike vote and bargain hard to cave the HP bottom of industry plan

 

[Claxon]

Guess you just proved yourself a liar.

You have said that you are not a pilot at Us Airways yet it did not take you 20 minutes to did up an east MEC rant from 2005.

Come on try and tell the truth. What position do you or did you hold with usapa?

You are nothing but a usapa shill.

Come ,on. Explain your ability to be an active pilot and maintain the presence on this board on a continuous manner. Please avail yourself to recall as did Dave O Dell. He is a fine young man, and his career is on the mend.

 

[crazystnic]

Of course they couldn't "pick Shuttle" and then come back. They were leaving one carrier to go to work for a new, different, separate carrier. When US Air and "old" Piedmont hired many of the EAL pilots, those carriers also demanded that they resign from EAL. (Psst! Almost without exception, it's standard practice.)

In this industry, when you resign from an airline, your DOH from that airline goes away. Why has that always been so difficult for some folks to fathom? Once resigned, it does not magically reappear when a new corporate transaction comes along. Resign is just that.

NYC BUS< The EAL to Trump transfer was not just resigning from EAL. They brought an AIRLINE with them, slots, routes, planes and a highly desirable Shuttle that many airlines wanted.
They also had a contract and a contract with the new Trump shuttle, agreeing to protect seniority (in any way they could, including EAL seniority). And they had the LPP's of the EAL contract... yes they were asked to sign a resignation letter to EAL an that was because Trump MGMT was concerned that he could be stuck with an airline with no pilots if pilots went back to EAL in Mass. Trump was a bid position, EAL pilots had an opportunity to "BID" the shuttle... so it was just a typical resignation as you recall. That's pretty clear in NIC ones decision, but I still think it was a mistake of the AAA guys not to go with a full DOH even for EAL Time, Do you know how many Trump guys are left? The fact is we brought many bid positions to AAA....

 

[end_of_alpa]

NYC BUS< The EAL to Trump transfer was not just resigning from EAL. They brought an AIRLINE with them, slots, routes, planes and a highly desirable Shuttle that many airlines wanted.
They also had a contract and a contract with the new Trump shuttle, agreeing to protect seniority (in any way they could, including EAL seniority). And they had the LPP's of the EAL contract... yes they were asked to sign a resignation letter to EAL an that was because Trump MGMT was concerned that he could be stuck with an airline with no pilots if pilots went back to EAL in Mass. Trump was a bid position, EAL pilots had an opportunity to "BID" the shuttle... so it was just a typical resignation as you recall. That's pretty clear in NIC ones decision, but I still think it was a mistake of the AAA guys not to go with a full DOH even for EAL Time, Do you know how many Trump guys are left? The fact is we brought many bid positions to AAA....

I argued and complained to my reps about that at the time. I believed that any integration other than DOH harmed are unity and even told them so and when I flew. I thought fences for a time could also helped. However, the "Piedmont principle" was still a prevalent school of flawed thought and the rest is history.

 

[traderjake]

However, the "Piedmont principle" was still a prevalent school of flawed thought and the rest is history.

By history you mean the "Piedmont principle" has been used in every pilot seniority arbitration since then.

Shuttle, America West, Delta Northwest, and Frontier Republic.

 

[cleardirect]

You have to understand that east pilots are (in thier minds) "special" and rules and principles only apply to what is good for them right now.

 

[luvthe9]

By history you mean the "Piedmont principle" has been used in every pilot seniority arbitration since then.

Shuttle, America West, Delta Northwest, and Frontier Republic.

And before that was Allegheny -Lake Central DOH, Allegheny Mohawk, DOH, USAir -Piedmont DOH, USAIR -PSA DOH. Your theory is bad . So what is some changed after. Doesn't mean they have to go that way. This airline has more DOH mergers, and its' employee groups other than pilots have almost been entirely DOH. Until Bob Kirch fouled up every merger proposal he was involved in, it was DOH. Kirch screwed up most of them. He picked Nicolau twice. He never should have agreed to Nicolau. Either way, it doesn't matter. The Nic is dead.