OCT/NOV 2012 US Pilots Labor Discussion

[fifidriver]

Who cares? No matter though = I know!!!...The only appropriate thing to do here would be to put some west person like yourself, with over a decade or more LESS time worked, ahead of all those people!!! Yeah!...That makes perfect "sense"!

Speaking earlier of bean's "...pilots with an IQ over 50, that have to witness this stupidity up close." You really do post your "logic" purely to provide us all some fine chuckles, don't you? 😉

Don't take that one personally. Even though you know a lot of big words, I don't think that he was referring to you.

 

[EastUS1]

Don't take that one personally. Even though you know a lot of big words, I don't think that he was referring to you.

Oh hardly....and no matter in any case. Enough of this mess for now, as there are far better things in store today. Have a good one All. 🙂

Suggested thoughts for all of us, not that I'm any fine example myself here: "Inside of me there are two dogs. One of the dogs is mean and evil. The other dog is good. The mean dog fights the good dog, all of the time." When asked which dog wins, he reflected for a moment and replied "The one I feed the most."

 

[luvthe9]

More past commentary by Unbiased Facts Chip Munn. Good thing the pilots did not listen to him. Munn is also a player in the CLT RECALL. Make sure you vote for recall so the Unbiased Facts group that gave no fight for the pension get back in!




Unbiased Facts’ Relevant Questions: USAPA is asking the pilots to provide another $540
assessment, in addition to the previous assessment, and according to Pension Investigation
Committee members at the DCA road show possibly another $1,080 in assessments or nearly
$2,000 “to know the truth”. Are those total assessments worthwhile only to learn more about
certain trades made by US Airways’ Fund Managers when the Pilot’s Pension Plan outperformed
Delta, Northwest, Hawaiian, and Alaska Airlines’ Pilot Pension Plans for the period prior to
termination? Considering US Airways’ Pilot’s pension plan outperformed both the Dow
Industrial and S&P 500 indexes during the Bear Market what true claim does USAPA and the
PIC have?

 

[luvthe9]

Here is some of the truth....


A review of a hedge fund of funds investment in which the Plan invested revealed that the multiple layers of asset management, performance, and organizational fees related to the Lighthouse V Fund, combined with trading and organizational expenses, amounted to an annual charge of approximately 8% on assets under management and 30% of any potential gains. Thus, in order to generate a net positive return an investment in the Lighthouse Fund would have to exceed 12% annually to match a risk-free return of 3%.

 

[luvthe9]

Further, PBGC did not review the Plan’s investments in futures and made no attempt to investigate the Plan’s $188 million in futures losses in 2001. Finally, PBGC did not investigate what caused the Plan to lose $658 million dollars, or one-third of its value between December 2001 and March 2003, and did not compare performance of the Plan against any of the other US Airways pension plans for the same period
Forbes Magazine
Here is what Chippie advised and informed:
Unbiased Facts’ Relevant Comment: In the PBGC's response to USAPA's complaint the pension
insurer denied almost every USAPA allegation and listed several affirmative defenses stating,
“USAPA cannot recover damages or fees by statute." In other words, US Airways pilots cannot
get their DB Pension Plan back or receive any other damages or fees paid by the PBGC to the
pilots according to the PBGC’s legal response to USAPA’s complaint. It would take an act of
Congress for such a thing to occur.

 

[luvthe9]

Make sure you vote for recall, and put in the same ALPA brothers who believed the company on the pension issue, and voted to stop the investigations of it.

 

[luvthe9]

According to Chippie, losing 47 MILLION A MONTH is no big deal, in fact it matches other fabulous plan performances!
Maybe the CLT guys when they get in after the recall will put him on the R and I committee when they do the recall!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Get your numbers right.. It is not 30%. Just FUD for you.

So tell us short bus. What good would the usapa's C&R do if they allowed PHX to be closed?

Only those out of your mind would think that the west pilots would agree to that. With the Nicolau Parker can close PHX. We all live with the new merged company.

You really are to stupid to discuss things. You trash your own argument.

Well when equipment is relocated so is the job they brought to the merger, JUNIOR, Well only a moron would agree to the "NIC" with DUI's ability to close "PHX" and he will! No we all don't what DUI can do absent a JCBA is sell you off or HORTON in a hostile aquisition,( read your TA , "NO OPERATIONAL INTEGRATION NO LIST" thus avoiding all litigation and move a valuable piece of the puzzle on the M&A board ! You can go live with your whoever u pleez!

 

[luvthe9]

Unbiased Facts’ Relevant Comments: USAPA’s PIC stated in its October 14 update “(the PIC
found) information that caused a federal judge to issue discovery, including subpoena powers to us.”
This information could be misleading since any listed lawyer has subpoena power.
Chippie, it wasn't misleading was it..........You could start giving out facts some day also, couldn't you.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Go run for office....oh yeah. You did. How did that work out again? Did you join Borman in drowning your sorrows in a huge bucket of chicken? It must be stunning to ones ego to have such a disparity between self image , and the reality OTHERS see so graphically displayed. Especially amongst your own tribe. Sad.

I ran for office.

You just ran....from a life.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Actually the fact would be if PHX closed without a JCBA, the company would be on the hook for full pay and benefits for however many pilots it took to maintain West min block!

further, the company would have to park the West fleet as it cannot be flown by east pilots.

Now some West pilots might get the reverse recall rule of the TA, but I am thinking that really would not apply either ,as the shared growth clause would come into play if the east grew at all from a West closure. but, why would a West pilot go fly on the east when s/he could sit at home and collect?

Right. You just continue with that line of thinking. Getting nowhere fast.

 

[luvthe9]

"More to the point none of these events make a case for the US Airways pilots to get more money
from the PBGC." UNBIASED FACTS ‹Are you so sure of your statements Chip? I guess it would be better to just leave sleeping dogs' lie. Make sure you get the CLT BPR changed out so we can go back to cooperating with the company and work with them as they have willingly worked with them in the past. After all, what is the problem with losing 678 million in fourteen or so months? Come on guys, it was only 1/3 of your pension that was lost in that time. No big deal.

 

[CallawayGolf]

Arbitration is only good until the next contract is negotiated. Might wish to get more legally educated.

Have a nice holiday in PHX.

You might have a bit more credibility if you actually referenced something I said rather than criticizing me for something that wasn't even remotely addressed in my post. Where did I say that the arbitration would survive past the ratification of the JCBA? The Transition Agreement and the arbitration award both sunset once the contractually binding elements are incorporated into the FIRST CBA. After that the parties can do whatever the law permits and whatever is mutually agreeable to those in control of the process. USAPA has to first get a JCBA before you can have any meaningful discussions about the next CBA after that.

I don't live in PHX and won't be anywhere near there over the holidays, but I accept your well wishes nevertheless. Have a nice holiday season as well.

 

[luvthe9]

Luv just said: "Do the rest of your CLT pilots interested in recall realize Bill McKee and his fellow BPR members were instrumental in the pension investigation going forward and the recall guys against it? Looks like McKee was correct. Had your recall guys been in, the pension investigation would most likely been halted. Just as it gains traction. Bad move."

You are so transparent Luv, you must be freaking out having just seen the recall site. They have the votes, and then some. It is happening, and your little pension diversion is just that. More FUD.

We all had our vote on the PIC assessment, and nobody I know wishes them all anything but success, however they voted.

And who are the recall folks that you say are "going in?" We have not gotten rid of the old ones yet. Yet again, FUD. But you mentioning the possibility is a tell on what you think the future brings.

Greeter

Is Chip Munn involved in any capacity in the recall?

 

[end_of_alpa]

You might have a bit more credibility if you actually referenced something I said rather than criticizing me for something that wasn't even remotely addressed in my post. Where did I say that the arbitration would survive past the ratification of the JCBA? The Transition Agreement and the arbitration award both sunset once the contractually binding elements are incorporated into the FIRST CBA. After that the parties can do whatever the law permits and whatever is mutually agreeable to those in control of the process. USAPA has to first get a JCBA before you can have any meaningful discussions about the next CBA after that.

I don't live in PHX and won't be anywhere near there over the holidays, but I accept your well wishes nevertheless. Have a nice holiday season as well.

Are you saying that thre is a difference between a CBA and a JCBA?

I would certainly say every CBA negotiated after a previous one would have differences but a CBA a CBA is a CBA, joint or otherwise and the prior CBA is superceded by the next CBA...regardless of arbitrations.