I vote with the GDI (for those may not know, the "I" stands for Individual) folks. Being an "at will" employee provides a motivation to be "my" best. When I can't produce any longer, I expect to be replaced and I'm okay with that...if I couldn't produce for the company I'd fire myself! Success (in the eye of the beholder) is out there for any one willing to pursue it. Unions are great for some folks and some work groups but not me...can't see paying someone to do something I can do for myself and for sure not on anyone's back.
Parker Turns Down Bonus
- Thread starter SCUBAgal
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I vote with the GDI (for those may not know, the "I" stands for Individual) folks. Being an "at will" employee provides a motivation to be "my" best. When I can't produce any longer, I expect to be replaced and I'm okay with that...if I couldn't produce for the company I'd fire myself! Success (in the eye of the beholder) is out there for any one willing to pursue it. Unions are great for some folks and some work groups but not me...can't see paying someone to do something I can do for myself and for sure not on anyone's back.
Dog Wonder
Veteran
I agree wholeheartedly. The reason I said where is the outcry for those folks is that all these union groups pay attention to non-represented groups only when they get something that they don't get. They never say anything about the perks that the union groups receive that the non-union groups don't receive.
I have no desire to be part of a union. Unions only reward seniority not job performance. Joe Loser can be working right next to me and doing the bare minimum to keep his job and he gets paid more than me because he has more seniority!!! I want my raises and bonuses based on my job performance. I've seen too many employees that should have been fired, keep their jobs because the union protects them.
You just don't get it...you sacrificed nothing for me or anyone from the old AWA side of the company, which our most recent bonuses are based. Our salaries and bonus (this year but probably not in 06) have nothing to do with you.
It looks to me that you chose, by your own free will, to stay with a company that would cut your pay by, I believe you said 40%. I couldn't and wouldn't do that. Look, the company owes neither of us anything except a day’s pay for a day’s work and for you what is in your contract. The corporate leadership has the responsibility to make a profit for the shareholders. If we, as employees, get bonuses or keep our jobs, it is the byproduct of that corporate profit. Your contract probably excludes your represented work group from profit sharing because it is merit based..."merit based" is not a concept recognized by most unions, now is it. It is not my fault you chose to be represented by a group that fails to recognize the value individual effort.
This sting is starting to bore me...I realize that I am never going to change your mind and you definitely aren't going to change mine. Oh, and yes, I will enjoy the fruits of my labors but it definitely is not from the backs of anyone. I earn every penny I get and when I feel I am not getting what I'm worth I'll "seek other opportunities," (to coin a West term.) Oh yes and another term from the West that was used after our bankruptcy that applies here...and I'm sorry this is not very nice...GET OVER IT.
Now, lets be friends agreeing on one thing…you are wrong :->
As VOR said, the bonuses paid to "pre-merger AWA employees" was not earned from the sacrifices of anyone, since it was based on AWA performance. The bonus was also not paid to just management employees (I am not management, and received the bonus). Granted, it was only paid to employees grade 23 and higher . . but the employees below grade 23 received a raise last year, in addition to their normal merit increases.
This bonus has nothing to do with what US employees endured over the last several years. All the AWA employees (includig managment) worked hard to bring that company to the financial postion it was in. That position made the merger possible, which probably saved US in the short term (and yes, probably saved AWA in the long term). I do disagree that certain members of the "old" US management team received some of the bonus money--but that was the board's decision, so I live with it and move on.
I agree--it's not right that the bankruptcy court can just void contracts--but that just means bankruptcy laws need to be changed! It doesn't mean that management (especially current US management, who had nothig to do with past US troubles) is evil and out to screw you.
Believe me, if my pay is cut below what I feel I'm worth--I will not stick around to see it cut again.
VOR,
Whether you like it or not, You owe a LOT to the people that sacrificed BIG TIME to keep the doors open at BOTH Usairways AND America West.
Both of these companies were headed for serious trouble if not for this merger..Ask Doug Parker if you don't believe it.
America West would of had to of merged with someone else or do something drastic to keep going. [if it was some other airline besides Usairways].
I find it laughable, that you think that if someone belongs to a union, they are not as hard working as someone like yourself.
If you took the time to read ALL of my post, You would of read that my biggest complaint was the crooked bankrupcy laws.[Which allowed the company to RAPE the unions without requiring any concessions from company employees].
If it makes you feel better, I was directing my comments to the company employees of the old Usairways, anyway.
Thank You for your continued suggestion that I seek empoyment elsewhere, It's being considered.
Get over it? As this merger continues, I heard Parker in one of his speeches say that there will be a lot of redundant work in the company ranks, Like you said, The company owes neither of us anything but a days pay for a days work.
Bob, Thanks for your concern for my welfare.
You don't have a CLUE as to what my employment opportunties are.
Besides, I do not take advise from people that brag about criminal activity,[ breaking and entering] on a web site.
I am in no need for a reference from you, Bob.
VOR,
Whether you like it or not, You owe a LOT to the people that sacrificed BIG TIME to keep the doors open at BOTH Usairways AND America West.
Both of these companies were headed for serious trouble if not for this merger..Ask Doug Parker if you don't believe it.
America West would of had to of merged with someone else or do something drastic to keep going. [if it was some other airline besides Usairways].
I find it laughable, that you think that if someone belongs to a union, they are not as hard working as someone like yourself.
If you took the time to read ALL of my post, You would of read that my biggest complaint was the crooked bankrupcy laws.[Which allowed the company to RAPE the unions without requiring any concessions from company employees].
If it makes you feel better, I was directing my comments to the company employees of the old Usairways, anyway.
Thank You for your continued suggestion that I seek empoyment elsewhere, It's being considered.
Get over it? As this merger continues, I heard Parker in one of his speeches say that there will be a lot of redundant work in the company ranks, Like you said, The company owes neither of us anything but a days pay for a days work.
I don't think he said anywhere that he feels non-union employees work harder than union employees do. I certainly don't feel that way. The point is that union contracts give everyone in a specific job the same amount of pay no matter how well or how poorly they perform their job. Sure, that has its advantages, but I wouldn't like it. I believe that if I am a harder worker than someone doing an idential job and same tenure, that I would make more than they do.
In addition, the point about bonuses was not who owes each other for their own jobs. The bonuses had nothing to do with the past losses of the old US> The bonuses were meant to reward AWA employees for the fact that the America WEst division (yes, it's still a separate subsidiary right now0 turned a profit for 2005. And yes, AWA may not have survived in the long term without a merger, but they weren't in any "immediate" danger. A profit in 2005 proves that.
Well, since the bonuses were based on AWA "standalone" profit, they would have been paid either way. The bonuses did not come from the concessions made by US employees.
AIRWOMAN
Veteran
- Oct 20, 2005
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VOR and rjh are 100% correct in their statements. This was an accomplishment by America West Airlines and that alone. The program was in place for a number of years and the goal was NOT met every year. And when the goal was not met, there were no bonuses. You've not worked here in any capacity, union or not, so you know not of what you speak.
And 700, are you in the financial department now?? I think not so get off it. You may have your finger on the pulse of the IAM but you definitely have no clue about running a company......leave it to those that do, supposedly.
It's turned into a bunch of people pissed off because they didn't get something that someone else did. And what's even worse, it's another example of the west vs. the east. If you lived and worked on the non union side, you MIGHT be able to comprehend. There are things that union members have through their contract. There are things that non union members have because they don't have a contract. It's your choice.
Now to throw this thread off even further than it already is.......what about those employees that are currently non union that stand to lose their non union status because the IAM feels the need to accrete employees without those employees having a say?? And before you or delldude go off on the IBT cheerleader path again, I don't know for sure what the IBT intentions are but from what I've been told, by IBT representatives AND company higher ups, the IBT wins and the accretion issue could be opened up. There's the way I want to go.
First of all the finances of the companies are combined.
And last time I checked US is still losing money, and alienating their most loyal fliers, not a great way to run a company.
Third the IAM does not accrete employees, the NMB does that.
Fourth the employees at US that were accreded were being organized, signing cards and even had their own in-house committee overseeing the organizing. (since you were not there I would not expect you to know this, but I have all ready explained this to you several times and even provided you with the link to the NMB case.)
Fifth the IAM CBA is the surviving CBA no matter what so if HP has employees doing the same work as US employees under the CBA the NMB will acrette them. A word of advice don't believe the company, they lie time after time after time. And the ibt wants to alienate and keep East and West seperate and still permit the company to outsource the heavy mtc on the former HP fleet.
And last time I checked US is still losing money, and alienating their most loyal fliers, not a great way to run a company.
Third the IAM does not accrete employees, the NMB does that.
Fourth the employees at US that were accreded were being organized, signing cards and even had their own in-house committee overseeing the organizing. (since you were not there I would not expect you to know this, but I have all ready explained this to you several times and even provided you with the link to the NMB case.)
Fifth the IAM CBA is the surviving CBA no matter what so if HP has employees doing the same work as US employees under the CBA the NMB will acrette them. A word of advice don't believe the company, they lie time after time after time. And the ibt wants to alienate and keep East and West seperate and still permit the company to outsource the heavy mtc on the former HP fleet.
