pay raise

[TWU informer]

The international is in control, we are there so they can say "Don't blame us, the people you elected negotiated this".

The minute the TA was accepted to be brought out for a vote we were told by the international " ok, you guys own it".

And you are under a membership and elected officer oath that pledges support and allegiance to that which you know is wrong.

As long as you have some belief of influence of power, even though you admit it is a weak and worthless, you continue your power trip.

What is the difference between the TWU International playing the farce, and you doing the same posting the horrible truths on one day, and playing the man of allegiance the next?

I still cannot understand why the "8" has not either resigned or outed out the facts about everything that has happened including names. You hate that which you fear to leave or challange. Almost like a battered wife I know.

 

[odie01]

And you are under a membership and elected officer oath that pledges support and allegiance to that which you know is wrong.

As long as you have some belief of influence of power, even though you admit it is a weak and worthless, you continue your power trip.

What is the difference between the TWU International playing the farce, and you doing the same posting the horrible truths on one day, and playing the man of allegiance the next?

I still cannot understand why the "8" has not either resigned or outed out the facts about everything that has happened including names. You hate that which you fear to leave or challange. Almost like a battered wife I know.

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Sam Cirri (the FSC) voted NOT to be released, theirfore if Bob and the other 7, did decide to declare mutiny, they would not have the support of the majority of the members. It sucks that we have such a large group of negotiators not on the same page because of the international influence $$$$$$

 

[787nightmare]

The process has become incredibly politicized. Apparently, the 3 labor groups have a certain pecking order to be either slated for release or parked. I know the pilot's negotiations are down to the last couple of large items (such as pay and scope), and we are a galaxy apart on those. It is obvious that we will never hash it out at the table. Even with that in mind, people with direct contact with the NMB have told me we still may not get released because "the government (NMB) is concerned about AA's financial state."

In other words, it doesn't matter a hill of beans whether or not you are at a complete impasse. The bought-and-paid-for NMB will collude with management to delay and delay and then eventually decide when to grace you with an actual release, if ever.

What a joke.

Scope???.......what the hell is that? Any of you mechanics know what that is?? 🙄
Joke alright...

 

[strikeforce]

I'm going to go out on a limb here and say that Sam Cirri (the FSC) voted NOT to be released, theirfore if Bob and the other 7, did decide to declare mutiny, they would not have the support of the majority of the members. It sucks that we have such a large group of negotiators not on the same page because of the international influence $$$$$$

Steve, you hit the nail on the head....the 17 presidents are NOT on the same page, and the reason isn't always the influence by the INTL. The 17 presidents are guys like you and I.....AMT's, except these individuals are responsible to enhance OUR lives by somehow convincing AA negotiators that WE deserve higher wages and less out of pocket expenses. However, they are not negotiators by trade or lawyers or finance guys. On the other hand, AA has PAID lawyers, finance, psychologists, economists, and any other trade available to them to bamboozle, manipulate, and out maneuver the TWU negotiators, and they're doing an awesome job at screwing US!!



Bob Owens, along with Pike, Cirri, JR, Gilboy, and all the other presidents, and INTL officers are NOT negotiators, agents, lawyers, bankers, or arbitrators....they are AMT's, FSC, and Dispatchers by trade and are NOT QUALIFIED to negotiate on our behalf. It's quite obvious these individuals are having a difficult time thinking of ways to gain leverage against a 22B company, and that's OUR problem. Not taking anything away from all the guys mentioned because they may be good AMT's and FSC.

Would you hire an aircraft mechanic to be your stock broker???? NOT!

 

[odie01]

Steve, you hit the nail on the head....the 17 presidents are NOT on the same page, and the reason isn't always the influence by the INTL. The 17 presidents are guys like you and I.....AMT's, except these individuals are responsible to enhance OUR lives by somehow convincing AA negotiators that WE deserve higher wages and less out of pocket expenses. However, they are not negotiators by trade or lawyers or finance guys. On the other hand, AA has PAID lawyers, finance, psychologists, economists, and any other trade available to them to bamboozle, manipulate, and out maneuver the TWU negotiators, and they're doing an awesome job at screwing US!!

Bob Owens, along with Pike, Cirri, JR, Gilboy, and all the other presidents, and INTL officers are NOT negotiators, agents, lawyers, bankers, or arbitrators....they are AMT's, FSC, and Dispatchers by trade and are NOT QUALIFIED to negotiate on our behalf. It's quite obvious these individuals are having a difficult time thinking of ways to gain leverage against a 22B company, and that's OUR problem. Not taking anything away from all the guys mentioned because they may be good AMT's and FSC.

Your right Carmen,
That is why we are trying to get AMP, so we can eliminate all of the middle men, that get kickbacks off our contract, even though they don't work under it. After we get screwed, I can only hope that Bob, Larry, and the other six guys that voted to BE RELEASED, stick together support a union change. It's time...

 

[Tex-Mech]

I can only hope that Bob, Larry, and the other six guys that voted to BE RELEASED, stick together

Doubt that will happen. This was hanging up at work today. Looks like Pike just agreed to secret talks with just him and who ever the co chair is. Who is that Bob?

August 29, 2011
TO: M&R Negotiating Committee

RE: M&R Negotiating Committee Meeting Notice

Dear Brothers:

As a follow up to our last session, we have scheduled negotiation discussions with AA senior management and both M&R Co-Chairman, along with Mark Richard Esq., on September 7-8 in DFW. The times and location are still to be determined. The Full M&R Committee will meet on Friday, September 9, 2011 from 10:00 a.m. to 4:00 p.m.

The Full M&R Committee Meeting will take place at the following location:

ATD Office 1791 Hurstview Drive
Hurst, Texas 76054

All M&R Negotiating Committee members should plan to be in attendance on Friday, September 9, 2011 and make the appropriate travel and lodging arrangements.

Fraternally,
Donald M. Videtich
International Representative

This has all the signs of a sellout in the making. 😱

 

[Birdman]

This has all the signs of a sellout in the making. 😱

Could it already be a "done deal" since Little said there was something big happening in August?

 

[FWAAA]

Would you hire an aircraft mechanic to be your stock broker???? NOT!

Well, I might hire an aircraft mechanic to be my stock broker if they consistently demonstrated superior stock-picking skill, but I get your point and agree with you.

Would you hire a labor lawyer to fix your airplane? No? Well, then, why do you entrust your livelihood to aircraft mechanics by hiring them to negotiate your labor agreement? Although there are exceptions, most people who take on too many roles become the proverbial jacks of all trades and masters of none, and the AA segment of the TWU has aptly demonstrated how true that saying is over the past 30 or so years by its consistent substandard results for AA's skilled AMTs. According to many who post here, only the 2001 contract was satisfactory, and that wasn't even ratified until after the September 11 terrorist attacks, when it was already obvious to all that the gains made in that contract would soon have to be reversed either by Ch 11 or by painful concessions outside bankruptcy.

Aircraft mechanics should concentrate on what they do best: fixing airplanes so they are a safe, reliable mode of transport.
They should hire professionals to represent them, both as their exclusive bargaining agent (new union already) and whenever negotiations with the company take place. That way, if those professionals screw up and negotiate as poorly as the TWU has for decades, the AMTs could sue those professionals for malpractice. Who can you guys sue now under your current arrangement when they deliver crappy results? Bob Owens?

Those professionals are expensive, to be sure, but sometimes you get what you pay for. Given how low your pay is (AA's line mechanics, not those at the bases) and how low it's been for many years, it looks like you've been getting exactly what you've been paying for.

And for those who keep banging the drum for release, riddle me this: You want the union that's been completely incompetent at raising your pay thru negotiations to represent you in a potential work action? If they can't negotiate a contract, how will they competently lead you during self-help? Release, as long as the TWU remains your agent, would be lunacy.

 

[odie01]

Doubt that will happen. This was hanging up at work today. Looks like Pike just agreed to secret talks with just him and who ever the co chair is. Who is that Bob?



This has all the signs of a sellout in the making. 😱

WTF,
Should we really be talking before the pilots deadline Oct 1 ? What I'm saying is, it won't matter what we negotiate if the pilots don't settle their scope and pay.

 

[Frank Szabo]

Could it already be a "done deal" since Little said there was something big happening in August?

Little Jimmy had better hurry, in that case, as there's only one more day in August to impress everyone.

Maybe he'll commit Hari Kari on the steps of Centrepork tomorrow ...

 

[strikeforce]

Well, I might hire an aircraft mechanic to be my stock broker if they consistently demonstrated superior stock-picking skill, but I get your point and agree with you.

Would you hire a labor lawyer to fix your airplane? No? Well, then, why do you entrust your livelihood to aircraft mechanics by hiring them to negotiate your labor agreement? Although there are exceptions, most people who take on too many roles become the proverbial jacks of all trades and masters of none, and the AA segment of the TWU has aptly demonstrated how true that saying is over the past 30 or so years by its consistent substandard results for AA's skilled AMTs. According to many who post here, only the 2001 contract was satisfactory, and that wasn't even ratified until after the September 11 terrorist attacks, when it was already obvious to all that the gains made in that contract would soon have to be reversed either by Ch 11 or by painful concessions outside bankruptcy.

Aircraft mechanics should concentrate on what they do best: fixing airplanes so they are a safe, reliable mode of transport.
They should hire professionals to represent them, both as their exclusive bargaining agent (new union already) and whenever negotiations with the company take place. That way, if those professionals screw up and negotiate as poorly as the TWU has for decades, the AMTs could sue those professionals for malpractice. Who can you guys sue now under your current arrangement when they deliver crappy results? Bob Owens?

Those professionals are expensive, to be sure, but sometimes you get what you pay for. Given how low your pay is (AA's line mechanics, not those at the bases) and how low it's been for many years, it looks like you've been getting exactly what you've been paying for.

And for those who keep banging the drum for release, riddle me this: You want the union that's been completely incompetent at raising your pay thru negotiations to represent you in a potential work action? If they can't negotiate a contract, how will they competently lead you during self-help? Release, as long as the TWU remains your agent, would be lunacy.

It didn't take much to convince you that WE need to change labor organizations. I can't figure out for the life of me why a majority of aircraft mechanics don't want change after 8 years of concessions, and 39 months of secret negotiations with no results.

The TWU doesn't have professionals.....it's an organization that is represented in negotiations and arbitration cases by aircraft mechanics, auto mechanics, plant maintenance mechanics, stores clerks, fleet service clerks, and aircraft cleaners. The organizational structure is set-up for failure. Period!!!

Bob Owens once said "who knows the contract better than the person doing the job", well if that was true....baseball players, football players, pilots, CEO's would negotiate their own contracts, but they don't. They hire PROFESSIONALS to negotiate their pay and benefits, and it obviously pays off for the individual. The agent has a little bit of skin in the game because the more the player, pilot and CEO make, the more the agent makes.

With the TWU it doesn't matter how much WE make because TWU INTL officials are more like politicians....they give themselves raises even if we take concessions.

Bottom line....everything about the TWU is LUNACY!!!

 

[787nightmare]

Well, I might hire an aircraft mechanic to be my stock broker if they consistently demonstrated superior stock-picking skill, but I get your point and agree with you.

Would you hire a labor lawyer to fix your airplane? No? Well, then, why do you entrust your livelihood to aircraft mechanics by hiring them to negotiate your labor agreement? Although there are exceptions, most people who take on too many roles become the proverbial jacks of all trades and masters of none, and the AA segment of the TWU has aptly demonstrated how true that saying is over the past 30 or so years by its consistent substandard results for AA's skilled AMTs. According to many who post here, only the 2001 contract was satisfactory, and that wasn't even ratified until after the September 11 terrorist attacks, when it was already obvious to all that the gains made in that contract would soon have to be reversed either by Ch 11 or by painful concessions outside bankruptcy.

Aircraft mechanics should concentrate on what they do best: fixing airplanes so they are a safe, reliable mode of transport.
They should hire professionals to represent them, both as their exclusive bargaining agent (new union already) and whenever negotiations with the company take place. That way, if those professionals screw up and negotiate as poorly as the TWU has for decades, the AMTs could sue those professionals for malpractice. Who can you guys sue now under your current arrangement when they deliver crappy results? Bob Owens?

Those professionals are expensive, to be sure, but sometimes you get what you pay for. Given how low your pay is (AA's line mechanics, not those at the bases) and how low it's been for many years, it looks like you've been getting exactly what you've been paying for.

And for those who keep banging the drum for release, riddle me this: You want the union that's been completely incompetent at raising your pay thru negotiations to represent you in a potential work action? If they can't negotiate a contract, how will they competently lead you during self-help? Release, as long as the TWU remains your agent, would be lunacy.

Damn...one of, if not THE best posts I've seen on this board.

And ditto Strike!! X2!

 

[JAFA]

Job fairs in Minnesota? Well my guess is anyone with our skillsets willing to go to Minnesota would also be willing to go to Montana or the Dakotas and work in the much more lucrative oil industry.

I can only speak to this issue, according to both the Star-Tribune and people I know in Duluth there are/were literally hundreds interested in working for AAR at the former NW / Cirrus facility. The article last week listed over 400 A & P's to draw from in the area.

Honestly I don't know if you're right or wrong on most of these issues, but I do know that believe or not there are many of us that would really NOT want to see this place burn down ala Eastern. Unfortunately, not only does it sound like some people are activly pursuing that goal, sometimes it sounds like leadership, yes I mean you, seem to encourage that path.

 

[Buck]

Well, I might hire an aircraft mechanic to be my stock broker if they consistently demonstrated superior stock-picking skill, but I get your point and agree with you.

Would you hire a labor lawyer to fix your airplane? No? Well, then, why do you entrust your livelihood to aircraft mechanics by hiring them to negotiate your labor agreement? Although there are exceptions, most people who take on too many roles become the proverbial jacks of all trades and masters of none, and the AA segment of the TWU has aptly demonstrated how true that saying is over the past 30 or so years by its consistent substandard results for AA's skilled AMTs. According to many who post here, only the 2001 contract was satisfactory, and that wasn't even ratified until after the September 11 terrorist attacks, when it was already obvious to all that the gains made in that contract would soon have to be reversed either by Ch 11 or by painful concessions outside bankruptcy.

Aircraft mechanics should concentrate on what they do best: fixing airplanes so they are a safe, reliable mode of transport.
They should hire professionals to represent them, both as their exclusive bargaining agent (new union already) and whenever negotiations with the company take place. That way, if those professionals screw up and negotiate as poorly as the TWU has for decades, the AMTs could sue those professionals for malpractice. Who can you guys sue now under your current arrangement when they deliver crappy results? Bob Owens?

Those professionals are expensive, to be sure, but sometimes you get what you pay for. Given how low your pay is (AA's line mechanics, not those at the bases) and how low it's been for many years, it looks like you've been getting exactly what you've been paying for.

And for those who keep banging the drum for release, riddle me this: You want the union that's been completely incompetent at raising your pay thru negotiations to represent you in a potential work action? If they can't negotiate a contract, how will they competently lead you during self-help? Release, as long as the TWU remains your agent, would be lunacy.

Given how low your pay is (AA's line mechanics, not those at the bases) and how low it's been for many years, it looks like you've been getting exactly what you've been paying for.

Could you clarify this statement? I agree that line pay is low, but there is not that much of a disparity between those at the bases and thats part of the problem.

 

[strikeforce]

Could you clarify this statement? I agree that line pay is low, but there is not that much of a disparity between those at the bases and thats part of the problem.

If you agree Line pay is low, why would you need clarification???? SWA, UPS, and Fed Ex make over 40% more than our line mechanics. That's huge! Brother.

don't you think someone is getting shortchanged by sticking with the TWU????? Why doesn't AMFA at SWA, and the Teamsters at UPS fight hard to bring back AO.....to the point of shutting down those airlines????? Only one reason, it's because Line Maintenance is like the quarterback or clean up hitter for sports teams......it's the most valuable player to the team/airline, and those labor organizations know it, and they know those airlines will pay $50, and they know the airlines won't pay $50 for AO. It's just my opinion, mind you.

Let's stop beating around the bush......Don't you think our union should capitalize on the value of Line Maintenance to AA??? I'm not taking anything away from the value of AO, but Line is much more critical to AA's operation. Flights are at risk of delays or cancellations. AA hates delays, so much that phones ring off the hook. I see it everyday. So, why not chase that $50 per hour for Line???? It's beneficial to all of us, and I don't only think AA will pay that much, but AA knows that $50 rate is out there and they would lose in binding arbitration. They know it.

Look, non-union AA mechanics in Europe are making $45 an hour, plus benefits. Why hasn't the union fought for that much for our Line guys???? It should be a no brainer, and easy argument, right??? Wrong! WHY????? Why do think they don't fight....it's all about union dues. And, if it's all about union dues then the value of the profession get's watered down to point where you price yourself out of a job. Like I said before....show me where AO pays mechanics $40 an hour, let alone $33 an hour besides AA??????

Bottom line....there shouldn't be this argument between Line and OH because if WE had adequate representation, the labor organizations would know the market value of Line vs. OH and it would concentrate all it's efforts on pursuing the highest wages and benefits airlines are willing to pay for that particular service, even if it means satisfying one group and angering another. It's called market value, Buck! Too bad unions call market value....union dues!