Results are out: F/A seniority Intergration team

[LukeAisleWalker]

J-Alpa
call me confused, but how is it, that this one women, cause the AFA to loose the
last election?

She clearly didn't cause the loss of the last election. The numbers simply weren't there.
However, from what I understand, the interference charges filed against DL in the last election were upheld by the Dem member, but voted down by the two Reps (Ms Van de Water and the other, a woman whom I've forgotten her name). The NMB is made up of 3 members (2 from the President's party and one from the minority party.). It only makes sense that in case there are challenges or perhaps AFA filing for a Laker ballot, that they would want to make sure they have a more labor-friendly majority. Also, despite what Ms Van de Water told Congress, I really think it is a conflict of interest since she was once on NW's Board. Furthermore, I think her tenure is up anyway..thus the new appt.

 

[BABABOOY]

J-AlPA

Where am I going wrong here? If ANY present day Delta F/A should
just kick back and let the AFA take their time. Shouldn't we be concerned
with the speed in which the AFA operates?
It was mentioned that the pilots moved quickly because they are /were both
ALPA (kinda familiar to your name ;-)
Aren't the USAirways/America West F/A's both AFA ?
Is their list merged yet?
Are they flying together? If so, how long did it take?
I believe one has only to look outside the aircraft window at USAirways and
see whats going on over there. Do we really want to end up the same? Years
and years away still separated?

 

[Dignity]

Dignity,

But what I hear you saying, and maybe I'm wrong, is that it is an OPINION that AFA Leadership is waiting for the new Pres. appt to the NMB. THAT is NOT an opinion. THAT is called a fact.

I see..

waiting for someone to show up and do something for you...is not always the best way to show how effective someone may be.

these were my earlier comments..."being effective is absolutely necessary or at least showing that to those who are not familiar with the process.. to some it appears they are awaiting an advantage..and that may just work against them."

it is not that I do not see where people are coming from, it is simply I am concerned the message being sent to those unfamiliar with the process is not the best one at this time.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Aren't the USAirways/America West F/A's both AFA ?

Yes they were.

Is their list merged yet?

Yes.

Are they flying together? If so, how long did it take?

Nope and don't know since it hasn't started yet.

The seniority list was settled pretty quickly since both sides were AFA - don't quote me but something like 6 months after the corporate merger. The SOC was granted in the fall of 2007 - about 2 years after the corporate merger (or was it 2006? Time goes faster and faster as I get older). The holdup is the single contract - the East ("old" US) FA's have "me too" language in the contract - certain parts (duty rigs, max duty day, and a few others) are automatically whatever is in the pilots contract. So until the pilots have a single contract (probably some time after their seniority list is settled, whenever that is) the FA negotiations are pretty much on hold unless they give up the "me too" language.

Jim

 

[jalbalpa]

Thank you BoeingBoy.

This is the simple explanation of the UsAir holdup.

Do we really want to end up the same? Years
and years away still separated?

Of course I do not want this to happen at Delta, beings that Delta currently has no contract it wont be nearly as big of an issue as at NW. Also, US management is not bargainins in good faith. Delta management work pretty well with the pilots, dispatchers etc...to get joint contract and if thats an indication of how it would go with the flight attendants...everything should be resolved in about 6 months or so.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Also, US management is not bargainins in good faith.

I'd agree with that for the first year of negotiations when they were insisting on a "cost neutral" contract, but there was no hurry since the SOC nor seniority had been resolved. Then the arbitrator's seniority award for the pilots came out, the East withdrew from joint contract negotiations and filed a lawsuit against the West MEC, the new union (USAPA) was born, got organized enough to get a card drive going, and won the election. That killed another year. Since becoming the CBA nearly a year ago, the union negotiators have successfully renegotiating the parts of the contract that were agreed to when USAPA was elected. So the score for wasting time is company 1, union 2.

The sad part is that the final contract will probably be very similiar to the company's offer just before the seniority award came out - East brought up to the West contract plus 3% for everyone - $122 million per year more than current separate ops with about 90% going to the East pilots to bring them to parity with the West and the other 10% being the 3% extra for everyone.

Jim

 

[justanadd]

how is it the pilots were able to resolve all issues(contract/arbitration of seniority) prior to a SOC but the Flight Attendants cannot? seriously..

The pilots also secured an improved contract prior to resolving seniority - seriously.

Also it is rumored that the Delta Intergration Team has included Delta Flight Attendant Managers on the list.

 

[jalbalpa]

100% correct, there are managers on the seniority list. From what I hear there is also the dead flight attendants!

Managers on the list, 100% confirmed.

Dead flight attendant, just what i heard...not 100% confirmed.

 

[Dignity]

Delta management work pretty well with the pilots, dispatchers etc...to get joint contract

you have to attempt to look at this from different perspectives..

some may actually recognize their own Management in fact does work well with other groups(more than likely all of them).. if they are willing to offer a contract to a unionized group in a timely manner...they may actually feel what is the entire point of a union in the first place when...by your own words..if they treat their people right regardless..

these perceptions are real...and filing of lawsuits to stop seniority integration and appear while seemingly attempting to do battle with the very same people.. we are suppose to work with together as a team will absolutely be an issue... when we ever vote.

were the Seniority Integration teams efforts even acknowledged by a thank you? I really hope so..

based on personal experience and watching what some of these executives attempted to do..(and today viewing how corporate America over-all works now-a-days)..personally prefer to work together with a legal binding contract in place.

however..

a lot dont see it that way based on their experiences (and some arent helping the matter.. helping them see it another way..IE: not even willing to sit down and discuss seniority as one example)

 

[Dignity]

100% correct, there are managers on the seniority list. From what I hear there is also the dead flight attendants!

Managers on the list, 100% confirmed.

Dead flight attendant, just what i heard...not 100% confirmed.

when the voluntary is completed.. they need to get a number and then absolutely verify it is accurate and make sure everyone on that list is not deceased or working in the office.

I am not understanding how a deceased individual would be considered an active employee?

that cannot be true?? how can it be?

 

[BABABOOY]

again confused, why wouldn't our supervisors
be on the seniority list? If they decided to go back
on the line, they retain their senoirity.
J-Alpa, do you have access to the list?

 

[Dignity]

again confused, why wouldn't our supervisors
be on the seniority list? If they decided to go back
on the line, they retain their senoirity.

this is how I understand that type of situation at NW...if someone on the line decides to take a management position...for the first year they remain on the SSN list(in case within that time period they choose to return to the line) after that year... they are then removed from the list and their seniority freezes at that point...now should they decide to come back to the line.. they would again be slotted back where their seniority was frozen..

I know of a FA who actually went into management and stayed for a while.. then returned back to the line, there is a near 2000 difference in numbers today.. with that person being junior to me when they were originally senior..

could that be sort of the same case here?

 

[Dignity]

Also it is rumored that the Delta Intergration Team has included Delta Flight Attendant Managers on the list.

please read post #87

 

[Kev3188]

when the voluntary is completed.. they need to get a number and then absolutely verify it is accurate and make sure everyone on that list is not deceased or working in the office.

I am not understanding how a deceased individual would be considered an active employee?

that cannot be true?? how can it be?

When an election is called, the NMB will get eligible voter lists submitted from both the AFA, and the company. It shouldn't surprise anyone that the company's will be as long as possible, while the AFA's will be as short as possible.

Look for retirees, terminated employees, dead people, folks who have resigned, and many more names to make the company's list. All it serves to do is make that much more work when it comes to vetting the list.

 

[Dignity]

When an election is called, the NMB will get eligible voter lists submitted from both the AFA, and the company. It shouldn't surprise anyone that the company's will be as long as possible, while the AFA's will be as short as possible.

Look for retirees, terminated employees, dead people, folks who have resigned, and many more names to make the company's list. All it serves to do is make that much more work when it comes to vetting the list.

I honestly would imagine and hope a process of actually verifying who is on a list.. should be completed prior regardless... was that not done the first time?