Strike Now

[Oneflyer]

OK,Proportionately, we have more management now than in the 18 years I've been with this employer.

Do you have anyway to prove this? If you do I'd love to see it.

Regardlees, I would agree AA still has areas that are too heavy on management.

I would suggest that if you want to eliminate management jobs, just show up for work. One of the biggest reasons you see front line management increases is to try to improve the attendance of union employees. I have seen the statistics for lost time at AA and several other large companies for similiar work groups. It is amazing how much worse AA's attendance is compared to others.

 

[Bob Owens]

Do you have anyway to prove this? If you do I'd love to see it.

Do you have anything to prove me wrong?

Well you just agreed anyway, see your statement in bold below.

Regardlees, I would agree AA still has areas that are too heavy on management.

I would suggest that if you want to eliminate management jobs, just show up for work.

I havent missed a day since last March.

One of the biggest reasons you see front line management increases is to try to improve the attendance of union employees. I have seen the statistics for lost time at AA and several other large companies for similiar work groups. It is amazing how much worse AA's attendance is compared to others.

And what are you comparing it to? Did your comparasions take into account the fact that many airline workers work outdoors? Even most other outdoor workers do not work in the weather that airline workers do.That we operate large machines and perform physical activities and dont sit behind a desk?Or the fact that we can not work while under certain over the counter medications and many prescription drugs? Or that we work holidays, in other words we report to work more days per year than most workers?

And thats only the legitimate excuses, now take into account the way the airlines have slashed pay, eliminated holiday premiums and generally pissed off their employees and you can throw in the fact that now you will see more weekend, holiday and "good weather I got something better to do " no shows.

Some airlines it seems would rather hire a hundred extra supervisors and extra workers instead of just paying fewer workers more money.

[post="230984"][/post]​

 

[Oneflyer]

Even most other outdoor workers do not work in the weather that airline workers do.That we operate large machines and perform physical activities and dont sit behind a desk?

The study used comparable labor groups, so yes those factors were considered.

And thats only the legitimate excuses, now take into account the way the airlines have slashed pay, eliminated holiday premiums and generally pissed off their employees and you can throw in the fact that now you will see more weekend, holiday and "good weather I got something better to do " no shows.

I under this logic, Arpey and anyone else in management should be able to just call in sick whenever they feel they need a day off. I'm sure it would go over well if I called my boss up and said, "hey its sunny outside today, I'm heading to the golf course." It amazes me that the only people that feel they are justified in abusing sick time is union members. That somehow the company owes them a couple of days off whenever they feel the need.

 

[aafsc]

And it amazes me that the only people that they feel are justified in giving themselves retention bonuses and bankrupt proof pensions while the company loses money even after gutting the pay and benefits of employees are upper management. That somehow the company owes them a couple million more when they feel the need.

 

[Wretched Wrench]

It amazes me that the only people that feel they are justified in abusing sick time is union members. That somehow the company owes them a couple of days off whenever they feel the need.

Perhaps you missed the connection between morale and performance. I will not try to educate you here, but, just for a moment, think of motivation, positive and negative. Have you ever heard of "passive agressive" behavior?

Speaking of attendance..............almost all union members are working today and tomorrow. Many, many staff are off. In fact, lots of staff was off yesterday, officially or otherwise. Remember Thansgiving? All our factotums and their support staff were off thurs, fri, sat sun, and many sneaked out wed afternoon, while we all worked as usual. And we all have experienced staff who sneaked out early early yesterday afternoon. Our management seems to be on flex time. It is normal for a work area to be unsupervised for the last 1 1/2 hours of the shift. My own supervisor (and he is typical) is present for 7 hours a day, compared to my 8 1/2. I have never been at work less than 8 1/2 hours, and often take short lunches. Time and again, I find offices empty or closed earlier than they should be. Leadership starts at the top and trickles down.

So, please disabuse yourself of your misapprehension that union members have an exclusive patent on attendance abuse.

 

[The Drunken Duck]

And it amazes me that the only people that they feel are justified in giving themselves retention bonuses and bankrupt proof pensions while the company loses money even after gutting the pay and benefits of employees are upper management. That somehow the company owes them a couple million more when they feel the need.

[post="231169"][/post]​

One of the reasons may be to minimize Agency Risk to equity holders.

 

[Oneflyer]

Speaking of attendance..............almost all union members are working today and tomorrow. Many, many staff are off.

That is a stupid arguement. Its part of the job requirement, you knew that when you took the damn job! Why is it that union workers take a job with full understanding that they will have to work nights, weekends, and holidays and then after a couple of years feel that they shouldn't have to?

SHUT UP AND DO YOUR DAMN JOB!!!!!!!!!!! Stop blaming your problems on the company and take some responsibility for your own sucess in life. The company is not out to get you, show up and do the job you're paid for and be happy you still get the overpaid salary you get now, because you should have any illusions that its going to get any better.

The self-absorbed, some one owes me something, its always someone else's fault attitude that many union workers have is disgusting. Its just sickening to listen to you people whine like little kids at day care.

 

[markkus757]

The union argument I always enjoyed to hear from my co-workers is "how can management do what they do when they can't even do my job?" I keep trying to tell them that they are not here to do your job. You're here to do your job. They are here to go to meetings and set overall policy. If too many chiefs are in charge, of course things are going to get screwed up.

 

[aafsc]

That is a stupid arguement. Its part of the job requirement, you knew that when you took the damn job! Why is it that union workers take a job with full understanding that they will have to work nights, weekends, and holidays and then after a couple of years feel that they shouldn't have to?

SHUT UP AND DO YOUR DAMN JOB!!!!!!!!!!! Stop blaming your problems on the company and take some responsibility for your own sucess in life. The company is not out to get you, show up and do the job you're paid for and be happy you still get the overpaid salary you get now, because you should have any illusions that its going to get any better.

The self-absorbed, some one owes me something, its always someone else's fault attitude that many union workers have is disgusting. Its just sickening to listen to you people whine like little kids at day care.

[post="231188"][/post]​

It is you and the company that are blaming unionized employees for AA's problems. FYI, I have NEVER complained about having to work holidays and weekends. In fact, it is easier to take the boat out during the weekdays because the marina is empty. It is obvious by your posts that you despise unionized employees. And we are not overpaid (unless you feel we should make minimum wage with no benefits). In fact, there are people in similar jobs who are non-union and are paid more. Someone at Southwest with my same seniority makes about $4.50 and hour more than I do. I know, I know, you say that they work more than we do. I have heard that sewage come out of your mouth before and it is not true. We turn planes with HALF the amount people and Southwest DOES NOT do bag transfers between themselves or other airlines. They don't have to deal with very heavy international interline One World Alliance transfer bags like we do. By the way, Southwest is fully unionized, pays top wages, has their own FULL TIME employees staff ALL their stations they fly to and as Herb says "take care of your employees and everything else will follow." AA and the other legacy airlines, on the other hand, do see the employees as the problem as evidenced by the fact that there are many part timers and AA outsources at a vast majority of it's cities. If unions were the problem, then Southwest should be bankrupt and Delta should be rolling in money, and Southeast should still in business making tons of money (after all, they were paying wages that would embarass a third world streetsweeper.) You talk like one of those frustrated, humiliated,jealous, bitter, non-union employees who has been conviced by their superiors that they are subhuman and not entitled to a decent salary with medical benefits. The only reason you have medical benefits is because the unionized employees fought to receive them. You should think before you open your mouth

 

[Seguro]

be happy you still get the overpaid salary you get now

You got to be kidding me. At what salary scale would you like to see us at? Surely ,with a comment such as yours, you have a number in mind.

 

[aafsc]

The union argument I always enjoyed to hear from my co-workers is "how can management do what they do when they can't even do my job?" I keep trying to tell them that they are not here to do your job. You're here to do your job. They are here to go to meetings and set overall policy. If too many chiefs are in charge, of course things are going to get screwed up.

[post="231213"][/post]​

True to a certain extent, but I feel that management should have at least some knowledge about the job they are supervising. When there is a delay and you try to explain how a container got stuck or why you could not turn a 757 with 12,000 lbs. inbound and 8,000 lbs. outbound with three people in minimum ground time, they just stand there with a blank look on their face because they know nothing about the job.

 

[Oneflyer]

If unions were the problem, then Southwest should be bankrupt and Delta should be rolling in money

Don't try to hide behind Southwest's unions. They actually care about the success of their company, the have proiftsharing and retirement that is directly corallated to the profitablility of the company. AA's unions constantly attempt to roadblock any iniatives AA tries to make. You constanly ask for "a business plan that works, that is innovative", but when the company tries to change you block that change or you try to use it as reason to add more people.

 

[aafsc]

Don't try to hide behind Southwest's unions. They actually care about the success of their company, the have proiftsharing and retirement that is directly corallated to the profitablility of the company. AA's unions constantly attempt to roadblock any iniatives AA tries to make. You constanly ask for "a business plan that works, that is innovative", but when the company tries to change you block that change or you try to use it as reason to add more people.

[post="231237"][/post]​

And AA people don't care about the success of the company? If there are such people who don't care about the success of AA then they are morons and should not be here because if AA is not successful there is no income for them. We had profit sharing (remember the mid to late 1990s) and if AA is not successful then they can't fund the pensions. As for having more people, it is because we are a much larger airline, have a large number of wide-bodies that carry a lot of international cargo, and as I said earlier we have AA to AA bags transfers, AA to other airline transfers, AA to Eagle and AAConnection transfers, and AA to One world bag transfers. I would right now trade my contract for one like Southwest has.
How have the unions at AA blocked any initiatives by management? Have they resisted the depeaking, the buy on board program, removing pillows from the super 80s? In fact, it was feedback from ramp that led to the pillow removal.