Thank You To Whom Ever Made This Merger Possible

[NAPAUS]

DesertRat, your concerns are totally justified. Nobody is certain how this is going to turn out. One thing is for certain, if the employee groups start fighting about DOH the airline might as well write its obituary. I don't agree with DOH if it creates a windfall for one group over another. Clearly, this is a problem when you have a senior workforce trying to combine with a junior one. What should probably happen is what hp_fa is stating -- percentile integration. It has to be fair, but reality says it probably won't seem that way to many people. Good luck to all!

[post="274481"][/post]​

:down: :down: :down: Oh I see so you have an original HP f/a ( after merger ) transfers to lets say PHL to fly Int'l ( you know Europe, where HP DOES NOT FLY ) and lets say they have a whooping 1983 hire date, that they should no be SENIOR to an original US f/a with 30 years! Get real! DOH is the only fair way to go. Put restrictions in if F/as's transfer to HP'S ONE crew base- PHX - and slot them in if they transfer. HP f/a's need to learn airline history before they start spouting off with this ridiculous rhetoric. Umm, maybe you've all forgotten that HP, just a few short years ago, was almost extinct!

 

[biztraveller29]

I thought this statement from the "Labor Integration Principles" was pretty good:

"To that end, because of seniority differences in some groups, straight seniority integration could have an effect similar to that of stapling employees to the bottom of a seniority list, an outcome that is inconsistent with a fair and equitable protocol. Therefore, some type of proportional integration would seem reasonable."

If the objective is to be "fair", why must the DOH rules be hard & fast? What percentage of HP f/a's have a DOH more recent than the most junior U f/a?

I am an admittedly outside observer, but I do not think that a straight DOH would be "fair" when one group is far more senior than another. Why would U f/a's be against a proportional integration? Please do not say "that is not the rule". I would like to know from a more philosophical standpoint, if two labor groups merge, and one group is much more senior than another, wouldn't that cause a big disadvantage to one of the groups? What's wrong with saying the top 1% at each airline will still be the top 1% at the combined airline, the top 50% at each airline will still be the top 50% at the combined airline, etc. etc.??

Call it a hunch, but it seems that if the shoe were on the other foot (U having a much more junior workforce), there would probably be a lot fewer U employees saying that DOH is the be-all, end-all. And, if that's the case, isn't that a sign that DOH is not necessarily the way to go?

 

[BoeingBoy]

biztraveller29,

You've got way too much common sense to be involved in this discussion....

:huh: 😱

Jim

 

[twoturnin]

RGR that BB---way too much common sense----instead of screaming and name calling each other ALPA group for months---just leave out the ALPA lawyers and get on with the arbitrator to be fair.

 

[firstamendment]

First of all, I would like to apologze for being out of line. We ALL have our moments when our passions over takes us.

Bear, I have gone to the AWA AFA website. They are aware of the FACT that DOH is the norm...sorry, it's true...but their MEC president also recognizes that the face of that senority issue will be nul and void as the face of US senority is ever changing by the moment.

You see, you are trying soooo hard to argue your case, but it IS what it IS, and in the case of the F/A's, even the MEC Pres. of AWA knows it WILL be DOH.....However, there ARE provisions for fences to be in place. By the time the merger is completed and the fences ARE down, I am SURE 100% that we will be on equal footing.

Bear, we do NOT agree on DOH..and thats ok, but we DO have bylaws. ...and we at US will do...YES, DO ALL we can DO to make sure the integration is NOT painful to the AWA F/A's. I know that is a concept unknown to AA, but we DO care for our brothers and sisters at AWA that share the SAME bylaws. 😉 🙂

 

[FA Mikey]

:down: :down: :down: Oh I see so you have an original HP f/a ( after merger ) transfers to lets say PHL to fly Int'l ( you know Europe, where HP DOES NOT FLY ) and lets say they have a whooping 1983 hire date, that they should no be SENIOR to an original US f/a with 30 years! Get real! DOH is the only fair way to go. Put restrictions in if F/as's transfer to HP'S ONE crew base- PHX - and slot them in if they transfer. HP f/a's need to learn airline history before they start spouting off with this ridiculous rhetoric. Umm, maybe you've all forgotten that HP, just a few short years ago, was almost extinct!

[post="275071"][/post]​

Umm, maybe you've forgotten that U is extinct with out this deal!

 

[firstamendment]

Umm, maybe you've forgotten that U is extinct with out this deal!

[post="275488"][/post]​

That is YOUR opinion.

 

[Bear96]

That is YOUR opinion.

[post="275494"][/post]​

That's right -- Mikey came up with that opinion all by himself and is the only person who has that. Everyone else who knows anything about the airline biz was saying U had a guaranteed great future ahead of it without the HP deal. Just Mikey is being a lonesome spoilsort...

🙄

 

[firstamendment]

That's right -- Mikey came up with that opinion all by himself and is the only person who has that. Everyone else who knows anything about the airline biz was saying U had a guaranteed great future ahead of it without the HP deal. Just Mikey is being a lonesome spoilsort...

🙄

[post="275501"][/post]​

And I seem to remember the same kind of words were said of AWA in the past and CAL. I remember the vultures sitting on the sideline just salivating at the mouth for those two companies to go under. And let's not forget Airtrans, formally known as Valuejet, who was very close to being shutdown itself.

Instead of the constant dribble, how about a little credit for those that have investors that have created 49% of what will be the new US Airways. Yes, AWA management (thank GOD) will run the company and will own 41% of the new company, but the 49% majority stake came it's way because of the leadership of Bruce Lakefield of US Airways.

US has done what they need to do to survive, as has American, who's employees sacrificed greatly. AND it was watching our spiriling demise in Chapter 11, Part 1, that gave your company leverage in taking the neccessary action to keep AA flying.

So you see, the BS spewed out has no legs because companies make decisions to stay alive everyday...and NO airline is immune to that.

:unsure: :huh: :blink:

 

[FA Mikey]

And I seem to remember the same kind of words were said of AWA in the past and CAL. I remember the vultures sitting on the sideline just salivating at the mouth for those two companies to go under. And let's not forget Airtrans, formally known as Valuejet, who was very close to being shutdown itself.

Instead of the constant dribble, how about a little credit for those that have investors that have created 49% of what will be the new US Airways. Yes, AWA management (thank GOD) will run the company and will own 41% of the new company, but the 49% majority stake came it's way because of the leadership of Bruce Lakefield of US Airways.

US has done what they need to do to survive, as has American, who's employees sacrificed greatly. AND it was watching our spiriling demise in Chapter 11, Part 1, that gave your company leverage in taking the neccessary action to keep AA flying.

So you see, the BS spewed out has no legs because companies make decisions to stay alive everyday...and NO airline is immune to that.

:unsure: :huh: :blink:

[post="275517"][/post]​

Compare U to CAL or any other carrier is ridiculous. None of those carriers operated in the environment as it exists today. LCC's in your back yard, the economy in the dumpster, oil at 55 dollars and rising. U is only operating because of a government back loan.

 

[FA Mikey]

Bear, we do NOT agree on DOH..and thats ok, but we DO have bylaws. ...and we at US will do...YES, DO ALL we can DO to make sure the integration is NOT painful to the AWA F/A's. I know that is a concept unknown to AA, but we DO care for our brothers and sisters at AWA that share the SAME bylaws. 😉 🙂

[post="275406"][/post]​

Yea so long as we are all senior to all the AWA people. We will continue to work to protect our brothers and sisters.

 

[eolesen]

the 49% majority stake came it's way because of the leadership of Bruce Lakefield of US Airways.

[post="275517"][/post]​

Oh, please. Lakefield is now a leader? That's not what we've been hearing for the past year over on the US forum.

The 49% investment stake came because people somehow believe that Doug Parker's management team can manage to do something with the US franchise that neither Bruce Lakefield, Bronner, Siegel or Wolf/Gangrene were able to do.

 

[traderjake]

What happens if the AW F/A's decertifyAFA and replace it with an inhouse union? Since it's going to be 2 to 3 years before operations are merged there is plenty of time to do this.

As a US employee to all the AW employees, thank you for saving us, I hope we don't take you down.

 

[firstamendment]

What happens if the AW F/A's decertifyAFA and replace it with an inhouse union? Since it's going to be 2 to 3 years before operations are merged there is plenty of time to do this.

As a US employee to all the AW employees, thank you for saving us, I hope we don't take you down.

[post="275732"][/post]​

Traderjack

Its too late. UAL found this out. At the time of an announced merger, the current policy is in effect. It would take a while to descertify a union. Its too late at this point.

As far as our AA imposters, there is NO fighting you and I care not to debate your bu!!####!! You can not be convinced..and frankly, I could give a good GD!! I know what the reality is. I did NOT call Lakefield a leader. I gave him credit for his financial leadership. You guys are sooo obssessed with US that it's laughable so keep your nonsense. Frankly, your obsession is weird at least...juvenile at most!! Those that know the reality really could care less. BTW, how much money has AA MADE in the last 4 years...huh??!! You are NO better off than US. You can point to one or two people ALL you want, but you continue to bleed money. Go conquer AA'S WORLD. GOD KNOWS THEY NEED IT. I am sure you two will have some know-it-all wise ass response probably supported by Mr Bill. I could give a damn!!

 

[traderjake]

I believe you are wrong. There is time to decertify AFA and I think the bankruptcy judge also may have a say in this matter.

As a USAirways employee your desire to reap a windfall at the expense of the HP FA/s in despicable.