TWU International visit to JFK

[The Dissident]

The twu vist was just a show to placate the workforce. Sources within the twu imply that a deal has already been cut between the iam and the twu. Mechanic and related will be shifted over to the iam and the ground workers will be twu.

 

[TWU informer]

Some people sure seem to use alot of "I" and "I've" and "Me" in there post as if grand standing is the key objective for chiming in on every topic.
 
700UW ranks the highest, Owens' is a close second.

 

[MetalMover]

The twu vist was just a show to placate the workforce. Sources within the twu imply that a deal has already been cut between the iam and the twu. Mechanic and related will be shifted over to the iam and the ground workers will be twu.

Where did you hear this? When this BS alliance was first agreed upon, it said nothing about dividing classifications and title groups but rather dividing  members geographically. Depending where you work dictated who would represent you.

 

[JABORD]

The visit was organized by local 501, they invited Local 591, Local 504 and the AE Local and we visited Title II, Title III, Maint at the terminal and American Eagle. I believe they visited some TWU members that worked for the Port Authority prior to coming over. At all the AA meetings the members expressed their frustration and outrage over the lousy contracts we have had to endure. While these guys are used to lively internal political debates I believe that they were shocked at the image the TWU has among all class and crafts at AA. They may have seen where members would come and make personal attacks such as "we dont like you and want to get rid of you" but rarely saw where the guys said "We don't like TWU and want to get rid of TWU". In the transit world the TWU has a good reputation. Local 100 successfully bucked the trend for zero-zero-zero contracts and concessions and were able to get small but significant retroactive increases along with some other gains, one being free transport on anything under the MTA, Concessions were minimal, one concession is where they have to pay a very small amount compared to what we pay into their far superior Cadillac health benefit plans. The MTA pass is the equivalent of several thousands of after tax dollars per year that goes into members pockets. Some members were paying over $500/month (after tax money) to get to work. When the MTA demanded that Local 100 open their contract early and agree to concessions or face a layoff Samuelson told him to go pound salt, they laid off a few hundred workers and all of them were back within a year.  Contrast that to what Jim Little and Sonny Hall did at AA in 2003.
 
Are they different?  Little would on the one hand say "we got to fight" then turn around and say "Don't do anything to upset the company". During negotiations Videtich told me not to fight with the company. When AA locked out JFK passengers and told the media that the mechanics were staging a 24 hour job action and I went and exposed the lie to the media Little called, but he did not say "good job" , in fact the opposite.  Harry openly says we will go after AA's image publicly in order to get us a fair deal. He has said he is willing to use the same tactics he used in PHL. Under Little it was "Never turn down a TA" and "dont piss off the company", under Harry its "we will shut them down if he have to". Yes they are different.
 
They stated that they wanted to rebuild the union, told the members they have eliminated scores of patronage appointments in the 9 months since they took over, fired Videtich and Gless and admit they still have a long way to go.  Not once do I recall them uttering the words "Give us a chance", instead he said he wishes whatever representation votes are coming to go forward and get done, let the members make their choice, then whatever the outcome is focus on fighting the company instead of each other. Did they blame everything on Little? Yes, and they should, Little and his team at the AATD did everything they could to make sure that American Airlines got everything they wanted and preserved their AA pension based on " the wage reported by the union" and A-5 passes.  
 
Harry and John are from transit and for many years there were barriers between the divisions, nobody knew what was going on in the other divisions and it was kept that way. Even within the ATD other Locals outside of the AA system referred to it as "the AATD". Little guarded AA as his own private little empire, the transit divisions saw that, saw that within the AATD there was serious discontent and realized they had the opportunity to oust him, and they did just that. 
 
Here is the thing everyone has to remember, ultimately no matter what union we end up with its the members that have to do the fighting, People like Overspeed don't like Harry because Overspeed only supports the TWU as long as the TWU gives AA everything they want and AA wanted Videtich exactly where he was, or even higher. What we need from the Union is leadership, leadership that will lead us to get what we expect from a career, good wages, good benefits and good workrules. You get whatever Job security there is to be had through seniority and language-NOT CONCESSIONS!!!!!  Harry Lombardo and John Samuelson both have good track records on those points, that's why in 2009 I asked Little to oust Videtich and put Harry in charge of our negotiations.  I agree that the membership should choose our leaders and have serious issues with flaws within our structure and the Constitution, but if we have someone who is willing to lead us where we need to go then at least as long as that someone is the only option why not support him? Right now he is what you have.  So do what you will as far as representation, but in the meantime if you have leaders that are willing to lead and fight the company why not support them? Whatever differences we have as Unionists should be put aside when it comes to fighting the company.  In reality the AMFA vs IBT vs IAM vs TWU debate is not the battlefront for the struggle for better contracts, its the contest to see who leads us there. Voting for a different union and leadership isn't going to stop the company from threatening to outsource your jobs its not going to stop guys who will slit each others throats for OT, guys who say yes to OT when the leadership asks that they send management a message, guys like Overspeed who spill poison telling the DFW guys that guys in MIA and JFK are trying to steal their work, these are conditions that each individual member has to confront because if you wont do it now then you probably will find an excuse to do it later regardless of whether you end up in a new union or not.

Yo Bob, I would caution you to tread lightly on talking up the TWU. Why can't these guys ever come and try and win support on merit? Instead it's smoke that they choose to blow our way. What's Lombardo's track record as Little Jimmy's underling? Who represents our interests at the ATD? What has changed?
My concern is a strategy for you to do their bidding. I would think any ability for the Intl to get you to do their bidding for them, especially knowing your fan base is of substantial size, would provide quite a chuckle for Harry and his boys. Don't get played, player.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

All the points you brought up about the shortcomings are valid, I've cited them time all and time again, its as if this Union hated mechanics. As if their goal was to say "Ok you wanted separate contracts, you got them", then make sure we did worse than anyone else, "you voted down the TA, so now we will string you along for two more years and never ask for a release". I have no doubt that Little and Videtich did hate the mechanics (or at least this mechanic), I believe they did everything they could to destroy our profession and give AA everything they wanted and punish us for voting down the concessionary deal they wanted us to accept. I admit that the new team has already made a few missteps, courting Tulsa and Fleet to the exclusion of Local 591 and 567 at the Convention was a big disappointment, but in politics sometimes letting it be known where you stand has a price, they knew Little wouldn't get our vote no matter what and they needed Fleet and Tulsa to clinch it. 591 and 567 pretty much were excluded from everything. Seeing Gary Yingst up on the podium was especially disappointing.   I believe that they reacted defensively to the 565 lawsuit instead of attempting understand what drove it and make the corrections it called for. Their reaction towards both Dispatch and Sim-Tech negotiations was another error,  they were unaware of the History. Dispatch and Sim Tech were part of the Joint negotiations where not only were they greatly outnumbered by Fleet presidents, but they were also subject to a weighted vote which in reality made them observers.
 
  I don't know Harry well, only of what he did while in Philly, I believe I mentioned a long time back about how I asked Little to remove Videtich and put Harry in his place. I did that then because he was the only person in the International who ever took part in a strike, it would send a clear message to the company that this guy would pull the trigger. Samuelson I've known since 2009 and we have spoken on many occasions, I've watched as he restored a busted Local 100 into a powerful force in New York City. Most of our discussions were around local 100 and despite the fact I've known him for six years, because our situation is so utterly screwed up and complex, his understanding of our issues is limited, but I believe the visit this week opened their eyes that something is amiss at the AATD.
 
 I didn't say you have to keep the TWU or forget the past or even forgive, I said that as long as they are here, if they are willing to take on the company and lead a fight against the company for our benefit we should be supportive, we should not let the company continue to believe that because we have no faith in the leadership of the union they can do whatever they like to us.  We should not be more focused on fighting each other than the company.
 
 Lets say the company decides to keep the matching funds and Lombardo calls for us to engage in actions to put pressure on the company to pay up, you are saying that we shouldn't? 

[SIZE=10pt]Bob what I am saying is that the TWU has not changed.  The names of the individuals have changed but the actions are the same.  Little talked tough too and did nothing but sell us out.  I would be happy to copy/paste the email and forward you the response I got from Sean Doyle to show you how he avoided answering the questions.  He even went so far as to say they did not want to give away their negotiating strategy.  Need anyone remind him that as members we are entitled to answers and if there actually is a negotiating strategy we are entitled to be advised of it?  Any and all information that directly affects the membership is kept from us and seems to be freely shared with management of AA.  We are treated as liabilities by the people we pay to represent us.  This will never stop.  Also let me point out that it's obvious that American Airlines has every intention of keeping our matching funds and the letter sent to them by the TWU will do absolutely nothing to stop them.  I actually expect the TWU to make a deal with AA allowing them to keep our money in exchange for some kind of unenforceable, worthless language that the TWU will claim as a great victory.  I also believe that the TWU is frightened of AA and does not want to go to court for any legal process that AA is sure to file after any kind of job action.  What are they going to do?  Send us all a bill for legal expenses?  They already swiped a chunk of our equity and Lombardo did that not Little. Prove me wrong Bob and get your hero Lombardo to answer the questions that have been asked.  See if you can get him to tell you why the TWU allows AMTs to be treated as second class citizens and get him to tell us how and when we will get the same benefits as someone who drives a fork lift.  He won't tell you Bob because he has no intent of ever getting these things for us and has no idea as to how he could if he wanted to.  With stooges like Sean Doyle running interference for him he can duck any kind of question asked and does.  It's easy to blame everyone else.  Little blamed Hall and now Lombardo blames Little.  I know we are about the same age so neither of us can afford to have the TWU give even more of our career away.  By all rights Jim Little should be in prison for what he did to us.  Lombardo talks really tough but his actions speak volumes about him.  Another snake oil salesman.  Let him represent Fleet and Stores at the next negotiations.  We AMTs need someone who respects us and wants to get us a good deal.  The TWU has had many chances and they have proven that they are not able to get us the pay and benefits that other airlines pay their AMTs.  If you can actually get real answers from Lombardo you need to share them with the rest of us.  I am tired of being treated like a second class citizen.  I am too old to quit and start all over.  I (and everyone else) have paid union dues for (29) years.  I would like to point out that the dues AMTs pay are higher than either Fleet or Stores, but both of these groups have better benefits than we do.  We deserve the benefits these groups have and I want them retroactive back to 2003.  That goes for the extra 2.5% pay cut we took that neither Stores or Fleet or anyone else took.  This would be the right thing to do as well as an apology to each of us for not doing what we paid them to do.  I think we both know the TWU would never dream of doing this for us because all they want is our dues money and they don't want to do anything to earn it.  Or what if the TWU told Fleet and Stores that they would have to live with 50% sick pay and take a 2.5% pay cut for 10 years and give these things back to AMTs?  You're right if you say that would not happen, but it is basically what they did to us.  You actually think Fleet and Stores funded these benefits with their own concessions?  Where did the money come from to fund Stores 6th week of vacation, all the raises they got along with skill pay and work rule enhancements?  I bet it came from our 6th week of vacation but the TWU will never admit that.  Tough talk and no action are very easy Bob.  Lombardo is good at this.  How about he vows to get us these benefits by the end of the year or the TWU will pay us the 50% pay we lose when we call in sick and the TWU will pay us the week's pay we don't get now for the 6th week vacation?  That won't happen either Bob because not only is AA not willing to give it back to us, the TWU won't even ask them to.  I will give you a challenge.  If you can get Lombardo to answer the questions and post them here I will admit I was wrong and you were right.  If you can't get him to answer them you must admit you are wrong and that it is the same TWU.  How about it?  The TWU has been pi$$ing on our backs and telling us it's raining for many years.  You are one of the most informed posters on this blog.  You are also a smart man.  Time for the TWU to put up or shut up.  What's it going to be Bob?[/SIZE]

 

[Overspeed]

Yo Bob, I would caution you to tread lightly on talking up the TWU. Why can't these guys ever come and try and win support on merit? Instead it's smoke that they choose to blow our way. What's Lombardo's track record as Little Jimmy's underling? Who represents our interests at the ATD? What has changed?
My concern is a strategy for you to do their bidding. I would think any ability for the Intl to get you to do their bidding for them, especially knowing your fan base is of substantial size, would provide quite a chuckle for Harry and his boys. Don't get played, player.

 
Lombardo voted with Little the majority of the time. Was virtually silent until he saw Little was under siege and cut deals with delegates when he saw the opportunity to knock Little out. He is a political opportunist plain and simple. If Bob is willing to be his mouthpiece then he will use him.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

I would like to make it clear that I do not blame Stock Clerks or Fleet Service folks for what the TWU has done to the AMTs at American Airlines.  My rants are pointed at the TWU International as they are the ones who insist of this kind of discrimination towards the AMTs.  They are also pointed at those in Local 514 who used fear tactics to ensure yes votes from the membership on the worst contract in aviation history.  I only wish the TWU would admit they punished us for demanding separate negotiations and right the wrong that was done in 2003.  It won't happen obviously.  The fact that it was done in the first place is reason enough to kick the TWU to the curb.  The insistence on perpetuating this travesty should convince all that the TWU has no intention of making things right.  My rants in no way are intended to offend people like AANOTOK who has been a contributor to this blog and is also frustrated with his union.  We are all victims of the TWU.

 

[OldGuy@AA]

Prediction -  The TWU will claim they will rectify the difference in sick pay and agree to AA's demand that we go to the 8 sick days per year use them or lose them.  AA has already dropped this bomb on their own management so I am sure the TWU is next.  The FAs will tell them to stuff it and the Pilots will laugh and refuse to discuss it.  Both those unions will keep their sick benefit while we lose ours.  Anyone want to wager on this?  Unless AMFA wins the representation vote this will happen to AMTs.  It's going to happen to Fleet and Stores either way.  C'mon Bob or Overspeed bet me an ice cream.

 

[comatose]

 
Lombardo voted with Little the majority of the time. Was virtually silent until he saw Little was under siege and cut deals with delegates when he saw the opportunity to knock Little out. He is a political opportunist plain and simple. If Bob is willing to be his mouthpiece then he will use him.

 
I didn't know the mechanics from term D had all this inside TWU int'l info on voting. 

 

[Chuck Schalk]

I'd like to read what the man who started this thread has to say? By now he should have an opinion and heard multiple sides of the story. What say you there Chuck? Do you also have a response to Bob's opinion?

Bob can speak for himself but I have given the twu 25 years to represent our class and craft appropriately and that has failed. If your asking me for my opinion Bob and I could not disagree more in any attempt to fix the twu past or present. That ship has sailed for many.

 

[WeAAsles]

Bob can speak for himself but I have given the twu 25 years to represent our class and craft appropriately and that has failed. If your asking me for my opinion Bob and I could not disagree more in any attempt to fix the twu past or present. That ship has sailed for many.

Good. I just wanted to make sure I knew where you stood since you used to be an elected official of the TWU. So if they ever were to offer you a position within the INT'L with that 6 figure bonanza you'd turn it down flat then right?

You do know they're never going to pull a former AMFA guy to the top just to shut him up ever again anyway so you have no choice but to continue on full bore.

How's the card drive coming along? Time is running out. If the IAM votes in those TAs I'm guessing the association will file before the month is even out? Mid August is my guess.

Good luck then. I hear Harry said they won't fight you anymore. Something about 15 years and they're done with it? Oh and I would have threatened to take the guy outside too if he called me a pusssy. Nice to hear some good old fashioned NY spirit was being thrown around that room.

 

[Bob Owens]

Yo Bob, I would caution you to tread lightly on talking up the TWU. Why can't these guys ever come and try and win support on merit? Instead it's smoke that they choose to blow our way. What's Lombardo's track record as Little Jimmy's underling? Who represents our interests at the ATD? What has changed?
My concern is a strategy for you to do their bidding. I would think any ability for the Intl to get you to do their bidding for them, especially knowing your fan base is of substantial size, would provide quite a chuckle for Harry and his boys. Don't get played, player.

You, Oldguy and Kev are a few of the guys whose posts I respect on this board, Conehead, Overspeed etc , well lets just leave it at they are not part of that group. 
 
I'm here for one purpose, to make this organization work for us, "us" would include Stores as well as mechanics because those are the people who put me here to do just that. When my peers asked me to do this job, that was a commitment I made, and I've always said to them that even if we didn't have recall that if you don't like the job I'm doing then just fill out a petition with the majority of members signatures on it and I will step down. My seniority at JFK gets me pretty much anywhere I want to be. In 2003 during my trial when the International asked who came first the members or the International I said the members, they said that was conduct unbecoming of an officer and removed me, I never recanted. My position has not changed.
 
 Have there been changes? Yes, has there been enough change to justify paying $700/year in dues? NO.  There are outstanding issues, such as the lawsuit, the status of Title II and the Alliance that still need to be resolved. Still have issues with an ATD hierarchy that is appointed and has authority over the highest level of elected officials in the ATD. (I can assure you that Samuelson never has to go to John Bland for information on Local 100 contracts, AA members should have the same level of accountability). I believe that what they did with Dispatch and Sim-Tech was a mistake and the approach they have taken is disturbing.  I've said flat out that if they push this BS alliance on us, regardless of what they say the alternative is, I will not endorse it and will vote against it. But all these issues have to do with internal governance of the Union. 
 
Instead of getting caught up in what people are claiming I wrote look carefully at what I wrote and the questions I've asked. What I've asked is that if Harry takes on management, not that we all of a sudden drop all our demands for changes and internal reform, or even that anyone stop the card drive, but that we all pick a side in the real battle, that we pick the Union side, and no matter what our differences are be willing to fight the company. At this point in the game, if they cant get enough cards signed to get an election with things as bad as they are do you really feel that allowing things to get even worse will make a difference? Who pays? We do. 
 
Don't you find it ironic that this discussion has put Overspeed and TWU Informer on the same side? One is simply pro-Management and the other is simply Anti-TWU(AFL-CIO, Anti-abortion, etc etc). Both are willing to sacrifice the needs of the membership to achieve their objectives. 

 

[DallasConehead]

There ya go,, Support the union!!! Fight the Company!!! C'mon man, are you really that naive? You and the other leaders have no interest in doing anything to help the members. You are all happy with you cushy day shift, take vacation when ever, take ALL the Holiday's off because thats what management does. I mean not even a whimper out of you guys when they forced everyone to work the holiday. They don't have enough people for coverage? How is that my fault, why do I pay the price for their mismanagement?
 
Anyway, you guys are all in it for yourselves just like Videtich and Gless. And you think this jerk off Lomabardo gives a rats ass? Grow up dude, as long as the dues flow in, he's a happy man and you guys taking up for him? Just an angle to get yourselves in there.

 

[Bob Owens]

[SIZE=10pt]Bob what I am saying is that the TWU has not changed.  The names of the individuals have changed but the actions are the same.  Little talked tough too and did nothing but sell us out.  I would be happy to copy/paste the email and forward you the response I got from Sean Doyle to show you how he avoided answering the questions.  He even went so far as to say they did not want to give away their negotiating strategy.  Need anyone remind him that as members we are entitled to answers and if there actually is a negotiating strategy we are entitled to be advised of it?  [/SIZE]

I agree that Sean Doyle should not be formulating a strategy. Why? Because he is not elected. The elected Presidents should be doing that and since they are elected, not appointed, there may be a period of time that the elected leaders cant publicize every aspect of their strategy, just enough to get the members to support it. Did Local 100 publicize every aspect of their strategy so the MTA can read it? No, but those who formed the strategy were all elected. I'll bet ALPA keeps things secret as well for the time needed. I believe in elected officials occupying the top levels of decision making but since you elect them you have you give them the ability to form successful strategies and putting it out there for the company to see may not always be possible. 
 

Any and all information that directly affects the membership is kept from us and seems to be freely shared with management of AA.
 

 
Any info that the Union shares with management as far as contracts should be shared with the membership. 
 
 
 

Also let me point out that it's obvious that American Airlines has every intention of keeping our matching funds and the letter sent to them by the TWU will do absolutely nothing to stop them.
 

 I guess that this will be Lombardo's first test, by the way the APFA is also involved with the same issue, which goes back to my question. If Lombardo makes the call to engage in actions to put pressure on the company to get us our money will you support it? Or would you rather let the company win just to make the TWU look worse? 
 

 I actually expect the TWU to make a deal with AA allowing them to keep our money in exchange for some kind of unenforceable, worthless language that the TWU will claim as a great victory.
 

If so I will not support it or those who pushed it.
 
 

 I also believe that the TWU is frightened of AA and does not want to go to court for any legal process that AA is sure to file after any kind of job action.
 

 I believe Santos touched on that.
 
 

They already swiped a chunk of our equity and Lombardo did that not Little. Prove me wrong Bob and get your hero Lombardo to answer the questions that have been asked.
 

  I believe the Equity was set aside by the court. Peterson made a motion that the union pay legal expenses so members get full equity, died for lack of a second.
 My biggest concern about the Equity is why did we only get 4.8% for $320 million in concessions while the pilots got nearly 15% for $310 million? Overspeed endorsed this, maybe he can answer why our dollars worth of concessions was only worth a third of what the pilots dollar was worth.
 
 
 

See if you can get him to tell you why the TWU allows AMTs to be treated as second class citizens and get him to tell us how and when we will get the same benefits as someone who drives a fork lift.  He won't tell you Bob because he has no intent of ever getting these things for us and has no idea as to how he could if he wanted to.
 

 
I think he would be baffled, but I think that his solution based on his life experience would be something we would not like-true industrial style negotiating where we all go in as one and all walk out with the same. The problem I have with that is that may be a good deal for everyone else but its a bad deal for us because we are so far behind the rest of the industry compared to everyone else. 

 

[Bob Owens]

Oldguy wrote;

With stooges like Sean Doyle running interference for him he can duck any kind of question asked and does.  It's easy to blame everyone else.  Little blamed Hall and now Lombardo blames Little.
 

Don't remember Little blaming Hall or Koziatek. Little is directly , but admittedly, not wholly, responsible for the mess we are in. A big chunk lies with Videtich and those he surrounded himself with such as Oryiano who subsequently started doing the same job he was doing under Videtich but now he does it with a management title instead of a Union one. 
 
 
 
 

 I know we are about the same age so neither of us can afford to have the TWU give even more of our career away.  By all rights Jim Little should be in prison for what he did to us.  Lombardo talks really tough but his actions speak volumes about him.  
 

What actions? 
 

 If you can actually get real answers from Lombardo you need to share them with the rest of us.  I am tired of being treated like a second class citizen.  I am too old to quit and start all over.  I (and everyone else) have paid union dues for (29) years.  I would like to point out that the dues AMTs pay are higher than either Fleet or Stores, but both of these groups have better benefits than we do.
 

I would like to point out that the old leadership manipulated the membership into accepting those bad deals, maybe bring this up with John Hewitt and Overspeed who both actively promoted accepting those deals through a campaign of fear and disinformation.
 
BTW as a Union worker in the Airline Industry you are a second class citizen, see 1167 and the AFA vs NWA Decision.  Another one of my concerns as far as the failure of our Unions to adequately represent us. 
 

 Where did the money come from to fund Stores 6th week of vacation, all the raises they got along with skill pay and work rule enhancements?
 

Steve Gukelberger and the Stores Committee got them that by holding out. Stores was the hold out. Title II, Tulsa and STL had already Roll called our concessions through, hence the DFR lawsuit. You can lay that directly on Mr Hewitt and John Carlisle. 
 

 I bet it came from our 6th week of vacation but the TWU will never admit that.
 

The dollar value of the 6th week went to the false promise of saving jobs in Tulsa and Title II. Stores figures were separate. Stores didn't harm us one iota, we did it to ourselves thanks those in Title II, STL and Tulsa who voted to bring it back, the majority in Tulsa that voted for it and the minority on the line that didn't bother to vote at all. 
 

 Tough talk and no action are very easy Bob.  Lombardo is good at this.
 

Just as I don't really know neither do you. Granted your assumptions are based on what you have experienced and I'm taking a leap of faith but even if it turns out you are right and I'm wrong then what is the downside by being willing to fight the company if he leads that fight? His track record in PHL is pretty good, was involved in several strikes, we have not struck AA since 1969. 
 
 
 

 I will give you a challenge.  If you can get Lombardo to answer the questions and post them here I will admit I was wrong and you were right.  If you can't get him to answer them you must admit you are wrong and that it is the same TWU.  How about it?  The TWU has been pi$$ing on our backs and telling us it's raining for many years.  You are one of the most informed posters on this blog.  You are also a smart man.  Time for the TWU to put up or shut up.  What's it going to be Bob?
 

I'll tell you what, before I answer that question you answer the question I asked you in our last exchange.