TWU,TEAMSTERS AND AA

[Anomaly]

UPS MANAGEMENT was the driver to get out of the pension, while the membership voted on the final agreement, it was the company pushing proposal.

http://www.tdu.org/n...ps-pension-plan



http://www.bloomberg...Fymjhg&refer=us



http://makeupsdelive...benefit-divide/




Holding on to the Central States Plan was one of the major issues in the 1997 strike.

http://www.labornote...ey-ups-contract



As for the $6.2 billion that wasn't a sidestep that I did ignore because its immaterial to the topic at hand. Once they (UPS) were in Central States they were legally/contractually bound to pay to get out. The amount UPS paid has no bearing on the fact that those left behind in Central States had absolutely NO SAY in the deal from the start. That is the threat that American Mechanics, USAirways Mechanics, and any others the ibt is trying to peddle their wares to needs to be fully aware of. If they get into a teamster plan, nothings to stop the exact same thing from happening to them the next time Hoffa decides to cut a deal.

The teamsters gave UPS an out on the pension, in exchange for card check, and the membership remaining in Central States are suffering because of it.

As for the rest of your missive, you can go right on claiming that's not what happened, or union politics, whatever.

The fact remains this all came out in 2007 ..... YEARS before Fred Gegare made his first campaign video.

Pull your head out dude and breath some fresh San Francisco air.....

All of your links are campaign sites. There is not a potential president of any organization or public office who sits back and says the incumbent guy is doing the right thing. Do you seriously believe Gragare who along with Pope was backed by the TDU would be any different?? I'll bet dimes to dollars that the person who wrote the TDU page as well as a couple of the others was also in the Central States fund and not with UPS. There are no signatures so who knows??? Seems to reek of politics and self preservation.

Come on man....Your smarter than this, right????

As for the ones left behind, OF COURSE THEY DO NOT HAVE A SAY IN THE MATTER. Get Real.

If I own a ton of stock in the dying Willy Wonka chocolate factory and I decide to pull out sending the stock in to a nose dive, THAT'S MY CHOICE!!!

It was equally the members choice who had the support of their management to the tune of $6.2 BILLION to say WE WANT OUT!!

The money is absolutely material as well as was the vote. If either side said no, they would still be in.

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

"All" my links are campaign sites? ...... Bloomberg ..... Labornotes ...... right

".....It was equally the members choice...."

You're one ignorant individual

What have you provided in way of proof other than your own inane ramblings?

Like I said before, The teamsters gave UPS an out on the pension, in exchange for card check, and the membership remaining in Central States are suffering because of it.

That is the threat that American Mechanics, USAirways Mechanics, and any others the ibt is trying to peddle their wares to needs to be fully aware of. If they get into a teamster plan, nothings to stop the exact same thing from happening to them the next time Hoffa decides to cut a deal.

Again, you can continue to try to cloud the issue claiming its a union politics, whatever. Anyone who takes the time to read the articles from 2007 can discern what actually happened, and that you are truly clueless.

 

[Anomaly]

Your theory is a stretch of imagination and we will have to settle on disagreeing.

I believe the members should have the final say, not Hoffa nor a candidate for GP. In this case, UPS Central State participants wanted out.

enough said.

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Your theory is a stretch of imagination and we will have to settle on disagreeing.

I believe the members should have the final say, not Hoffa nor a candidate for GP. In this case, UPS Central State participants wanted out.

enough said.

"I believe the members should have the final say,"

You mean the membership (AMTs) should vote for all elected (AMT) officers and hold those officials accountable?

Good thing you're hiding behind an alias otherwise your appointed masters would be very angry with such a statement.

GO AMFA!

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Your theory is a stretch of imagination and we will have to settle on disagreeing.

I believe the members should have the final say, not Hoffa nor a candidate for GP. In this case, UPS Central State participants wanted out.

enough said.

Settle on disagreeing? Why? Because you can't defend the indefensible?

My message from the start with the posting of the Gegare Video, was to make sure American Mechanics are aware of the very real threat inherent in joining any teamster plan. Nothing prevents Hoffa from cutting a deal with another management group and allowing more members to have their retirements undermined just like Central States.

UPS Management wanted and pushed to get out of Central States and they offered Card Check at UPS Freight/Overnite to get it.

Your absurd attempts at pettifogging the issue isn't distracting anyone from these facts.

"enough said"

 

[1AA]

Can someone explain Card Check. Thank you.

 

[enough already]

Check-Off: A contract clause authorizing the company to deduct union dues from paychecks of those members who so authorize deductions. The company then transfers the money to the union.

http://stopunions.com/resources/glossary/

 

[ThirdSeatHero]

Can someone explain Card Check. Thank you.

In a nutshell, "Card Check" or "Card Check Neutrality Agreement" basically means if a union collects a majority of cards for an affected bargaining unit, the employer agrees to recognize that union as its employee's bargaining representative without an election.

Here is a more detailed piece on the subject.

http://www.acslaw.org/files/Brudney-Neutrality%20Agreements-Feb%202007-Advance%20Vol%201.pdf

 

[Bob Owens]

In a nutshell, "Card Check" or "Card Check Neutrality Agreement" basically means if a union collects a majority of cards for an affected bargaining unit, the employer agrees to recognize that union as its employee's bargaining representative without an election.

Here is a more detailed piece on the subject.

http://www.acslaw.org/files/Brudney-Neutrality%20Agreements-Feb%202007-Advance%20Vol%201.pdf

IIRC thats how the Eagle guys became TWU.

 

[Anomaly]

In a nutshell, "Card Check" or "Card Check Neutrality Agreement" basically means if a union collects a majority of cards for an affected bargaining unit, the employer agrees to recognize that union as its employee's bargaining representative without an election.

Here is a more detailed piece on the subject.

http://www.acslaw.or...vance Vol 1.pdf

Hey, we can agree on something after all.

Settle on disagreeing? Why? Because you can't defend the indefensible?

My message from the start with the posting of the Gegare Video, was to make sure American Mechanics are aware of the very real threat inherent in joining any teamster plan. Nothing prevents Hoffa from cutting a deal with another management group and allowing more members to have their retirements undermined just like Central States.

UPS Management wanted and pushed to get out of Central States and they offered Card Check at UPS Freight/Overnite to get it.

Your absurd attempts at pettifogging the issue isn't distracting anyone from these facts.

"enough said"

Unfortunately we still can not agree on this subject. I was hoping my last post would be the end of this discussion, but it is clear you want to keep going.

You are doing little more than promoting fear in order to sell your very weak point.

Understand that so far, ONLY the Teamsters have offered to do anything about the situation surrounding the AA mechanics. The Teamsters have stated numerous times that they will take legal action to try to re-open the collective bargaining agreement and give the mechanics some choices.

With both the TWU and AMFA, all you get is fear and excuses. With these other two unions, all you get is "sorry, there is nothing we can do about it..." or from you, keep the little you have because there might be a risk in asking for more.

Your very truly correct. To make a change does involve a risk. But I would much rather take that risk than sit around and do nothing. Which do you think will get better results?

 

[Ken MacTiernan]

Hey yellow spine!

"Understand that so far, ONLY the Teamsters have offered to do anything about the situation surrounding the AA mechanics. The Teamsters have stated numerous times that they will take legal action to try to re-open the collective bargaining agreement and give the mechanics some choices."

More lies I see. Legal action to open the contract? Now that there is the extra size bottle of snake oil you are selling. Your support for an industrial union that is undemocratic and mirrors the twu to a fault is laughable.

"some choices"?

How about EVERY choice because the membership controls the union. Will the appointed all powerful business agent be making up which choices are "some choices"?

GO AMFA!

 

[Anomaly]

Hey yellow spine!

"Understand that so far, ONLY the Teamsters have offered to do anything about the situation surrounding the AA mechanics. The Teamsters have stated numerous times that they will take legal action to try to re-open the collective bargaining agreement and give the mechanics some choices."

More lies I see. Legal action to open the contract? Now that there is the extra size bottle of snake oil you are selling. Your support for an industrial union that is undemocratic and mirrors the twu to a fault is laughable.

"some choices"?

How about EVERY choice because the membership controls the union. Will the appointed all powerful business agent be making up which choices are "some choices"?

GO AMFA!

More tuff talk....

How is it undemocratic to offer mechanics choices??

 

[xUT]

Hey, we can agree on something after all.



Unfortunately we still can not agree on this subject. I was hoping my last post would be the end of this discussion, but it is clear you want to keep going.

You are doing little more than promoting fear in order to sell your very weak point.

Understand that so far, ONLY the Teamsters have offered to do anything about the situation surrounding the AA mechanics. The Teamsters have stated numerous times that they will take legal action to try to re-open the collective bargaining agreement and give the mechanics some choices.

With both the TWU and AMFA, all you get is fear and excuses. With these other two unions, all you get is "sorry, there is nothing we can do about it..." or from you, keep the little you have because there might be a risk in asking for more.

Your very truly correct. To make a change does involve a risk. But I would much rather take that risk than sit around and do nothing. Which do you think will get better results?

Kudos to you Sir!
Finally used the word "TRY" vs your last posts of "WILL".
Keep it up and you may be guilty of becoming an honest ibt organizer.

Take Care,
B) xUT

 

[Anomaly]

Kudos to you Sir!
Finally used the word "TRY" vs your last posts of "WILL".
Keep it up and you may be guilty of becoming an honest ibt organizer.

Take Care,
B) xUT

No problem, I'll take that. These guys on the blog gave me the job anyway. When do I get paid?

Are you sure I said will, as in they will deffinately open the agreement? Or did I say will as in they will take it to court? Either way, the other unions both said "bummer dudes, your screwed".

 

[1AA]

No problem, I'll take that. These guys on the blog gave me the job anyway. When do I get paid?

Are you sure I said will, as in they will deffinately open the agreement? Or did I say will as in they will take it to court? Either way, the other unions both said "bummer dudes, your screwed".

The Teamsters will take anything to court. They love spending and wasting members dues money. The Teamsters do not care if they win or lose cases.

The forcing of opening the contract when representation changes hands is not legal.
This was proven by the TWU, IAM and AMFA. Keep posting more lies. Your creditability is sinking to all new lows every time you make false claims led by the Teamsters.