Union elections and the RLA....POLL!

[Dignity]

And to dignity

Well!

I can only share my observations or what amounts to basically...

watching in horror.. stuck in the middle.. witnessing two sides..

(Union and Management)

flex their muscles and screwing it all up!

while...

bickering with each other, strikes, being laid off during one of them, losing a industry leading contract, getting a $10.00 plus an hour pay cut on Flight Pay alone including a gutted contract.

Gee, thanks.. :blink:


all the while,

(it was creating a perception of a poor reputation that = a bad name)

The perception was created not because of the work ethic on the front line or the incredible technology and world class facilities..

it happened because you had one group with a chip on their shoulders while another was just coming up with ideas that was just well.. 🙄 !

while its possible comparing one situation to another, it is difficult to make a blanket generalization how it will be from one company to the next.

It may be OK, it may not be OK...

it is also best not to make an assumption.. how it will be at a company someone has never been employed as well..

(keeping an open mind is probably going to be necessary in this particular situation)

 

[700UW]

Go ask the non-union DL employees what happened to them, how many times did DL negotiate with them?

Did DL employees vote or have a voice?

Gee what about all that money that NW employees got because the unions negotiated their claims instead of having the thrown out in court.

In case you havent noticed, most unions at most airlines had to take concessions, it wasnt because of the unions it was the economy but hey blame the unions instead of management, its way easier.

Bet you dont attend meetings nor have ever been involved.

Put a union CBA up against the non-union counterparts and see who has the better deal.

Gee and what about all that money the unions got from NW after the ESOP and they had to sue NW to get it.

And by the way statistics prove that unionized companies are more productive than their non-union counterparts.

Dont let the facts get in your way!

 

[Dignity]

Go ask the non-union DL employees what happened to them, how many times did DL negotiate with them?

Did DL employees vote or have a voice?

there is another side to the story.. there always is.

one person's perception may just be that or opinion.

(the majority there seem to be happy.. for whatever reasons)

Gee what about all that money that NW employees got because the unions negotiated their claims instead of having the thrown out in court.

our equity claim was due to the bankruptcy court abrogating our contract, there was a dollar value when that happened.

what I did not agree with was simply making that part of a Tentative Agreement to vote on.

(we were entitled to that claim either way)

personally think anything that is associated with a buyout or claim in that instance should have been separate from a TA.

IMO

In case you havent noticed, most unions at most airlines had to take concessions, it wasnt because of the unions it was the economy but hey blame the unions instead of management, its way easier.

well personally have noticed that being in a union at this time and having to take concessions! and it wasnt all due to Management, a lot of what happened with our group was simply ignoring the need to do something. The PFAA flat out refused to address anything for nearly two full years and then in the end gutted our contract.

was it worth it? no.

ignoring an issue does not make it go away.

(that goes for life in general too!)

Bet you dont attend meetings nor have ever been involved.

have paid dues to all three unions and have never been in arrears.
have participated in every election that was made available.
voted and supported AFA TA2 and AFA TA3 that included our equity claim
(even though it wasnt the popular thing to do with most at that time)
and some of them even labled those who supported especially AFA TA 3 "Management sympathizers" simply for supporting an agreement the AFA put in front of us to vote for...that included our equity claim, buyout, and returning those who honored the AMFA strike, by some of the very same people

who wanted AFA on the property in the first place.

DL people will know exactly what I am talking about when they see for themselves what really happens.

so basically, in this instance

(you dont know what you are talking about)

at all.

Put a union CBA up against the non-union counterparts and see who has the better deal.

Yours?

Gee and what about all that money the unions got from NW after the ESOP and they had to sue NW to get it.

what about it?

And by the way statistics prove that unionized companies are more productive than their non-union counterparts.

thats not entirely accurate, because there can be very real limitations.

however in regards to prove something, on the topic at hand,
not trying to prove anything, just stating what has happened, the facts.

Dont let the facts get in your way!

thats right, dont!

 

[700UW]

Let me address this.

And once again, you did not address the FACT the DL employees had no rights or recourse in what happened to them.

Our Contract at US for M&R and Fleet were abrogated we did not get the money that you all did.

Of course it was part of the CBA, you dont vote on each issue separate in regards to it.

Ok, we took concessions twice at US in 2002 and 2003 to help the company out only to end up in bankruptcy again in 2004, see we stepped up to the plate and management failed once again.

You have to pay dues in order to be employed (cop out answer on your part).

Just go ask your DL counterparts about what happened to them and what their total compensation and benefits are compared to your CBA, and see which is better.

 

[Dignity]

Let me address this.

And once again, you did not address the FACT the DL employees had no rights or recourse in what happened to them.

you havent addressed why the majority at DL keep saying..No thank you!

Our Contract at US for M&R and Fleet were abrogated we did not get the money that you all did.

keyword:
consent

the Bankruptcy Court forced us to accept terms we did not ratify, when that happened
we were owed a dollar amount for the fact they abrogated without our consent.

we were entitled to that claim because of what the Court did...minus our consent.

had TA3 not been ratified, that claim would have been forfeited and not available post Bankruptcy.

Of course it was part of the CBA, you dont vote on each issue separate in regards to it.

I know that, that is why that comment was ended..IMO

that would be... In my opinion!

IMO it should have been separate!

Ok, we took concessions twice at US in 2002 and 2003 to help the company out only to end up in bankruptcy again in 2004, see we stepped up to the plate and management failed once again.

I am really sorry to see that, because most of the US employees I have encountered are wonderful people.

but this is not about your situation, its about ours.

You have to pay dues in order to be employed (cop out answer on your part).

payment of dues is mandatory and a condition of employment, correct.

Just go ask your DL counterparts about what happened to them and what their total compensation and benefits are compared to your CBA, and see which is better.

I really think they have a much more flexible working environment, its admirable.

the more you learn about how they run their operations, it is starting to appear superior to what we have offered now..

(seriously)

 

[700UW]

The reason DL employees have resisted unions is cause DL use to treat them fairly, pay them the same or above unionized airlines to keep the unions out, DL has spent millions on keep unions out, ask yourself why?

Why is it ok for the CEO and executives to have contracts yet not ok for the employees?

And you can negotiate flexibility into your CBA.

If you really want to educate yourself on what companies will do when your non-union, go ask a US fleet service employee what happened to them in 92 without a union, and why they voted one in real quick after that.

 

[Dignity]

And you can negotiate flexibility into your CBA.

working with the employees either way,
would be in everyone's best interest.

If you really want to educate yourself on what companies will do when your non-union, go ask a US fleet service employee what happened to them in 92 without a union, and why they voted one in real quick after that.

I believe a non-union scenario may not always be the best option, but that does not mean it will always be the case or necessary in every situation.

 

[700UW]

Keep ignoring question poised to you, huh? Why is that?

And ask yourself why is the airline industry one of most unionized industry?

 

[Dignity]

The reason DL employees have resisted unions is cause DL use to treat them fairly, pay them the same or above unionized airlines to keep the unions out, DL has spent millions on keep unions out, ask yourself why?

when I attended training, it was unbelievable.. when I walked into their training facilities for the first time..

it is apparent..

not only do they treat their people fairly, they have invested heavily in their employees, they provide them with the best that is available and take their people very seriously and provided a very positive learning experience.

(is the impression I left with after completing IQ)

 

[700UW]

Lets have some DL employees chime in, you will hear a different story.

Keep ignoring the questions.

 

[Dignity]

Lets have some DL employees chime in, you will hear a different story.

for every good story you hear, there may possibly be a bad one.

for every bad story you hear, there is a good one..

and so on, and so on.

that can go back and forth, everyone is going to see a situation completely differently from another,

but what the majority decides, is well, the majority decision.

have an election..

in this situation, you can only go on the past two elections and take into consideration the majority who opted not to support the idea of representation, was in fact the majority.

that happened because more felt it was not necessary, than those who felt it was.. the numbers just werent there..

regardless if you hear a story supporting either view.


what I think would be best is to simply have an election (pick a format please) and finally decide how the majority wishes to proceed.

 

[goodgirl37]

when I attended training, it was unbelievable.. when I walked into their training facilities for the first time..

it is apparent..

not only do they treat their people fairly, they have invested heavily in their employees, they provide them with the best that is available and take their people very seriously and provided a very positive learning experience.

(is the impression I left with after completing IQ)

It is called serving Delta Kool-Aid sister, trust me, when you go and work the hotline for DAL employees to call and ask questions, you hear HORRIFIC stories of mistreatment, not just one or two, but more than you would like to care to admit.. I am not RAH RAH SIS BOOM BA, for the union, but it is necessary in TODAYS industry. If it wasnt so important, DAL mgmt, would say "who cares - unionize" instead they spend MILLIONS over and over to keep it out... HELLOOOO DING DING, get out of the sugar coma, why do you think your pilots are unionized... If it wasnt for the NWA folks i would say dont try to organize DAL again, EVER, and let em learn on their own.. Its not the same DAL folks, put away your poodle skirt and welcome to 2009!

 

[Dignity]

It is called serving Delta Kool-Aid sister,

Well thanks a lot for the information "Sugar"!

trust me, when you go and work the hotline for DAL employees to call and ask questions, you hear HORRIFIC stories of mistreatment,

Its not that I dont trust you, as a matter of fact, I am always open to different points of view,
regardless of how off the wall they may be!

for clarification..

(that was not an insinuation to you at all, the "off the wall" thingy)

not just one or two, but more than you would like to care to admit..

so more than one or two, that would be three?

I am not RAH RAH SIS BOOM BA, for the union, but it is necessary in TODAYS industry. If it wasnt so important, DAL mgmt, would say "who cares - unionize" instead they spend MILLIONS over and over to keep it out...

I agree and that should be left up to the majority to decide!

HELLOOOO DING DING,

Hi!

oh BTW!

its not DING DING, its...DIGNITY..that is D-I-G-N-I-T-Y

(not necessarily spelled in all caps either)

get out of the sugar coma,

I am right here in the real world in reality and know the deal, and believe me I have been paying attention, the whole time!

why do you think your pilots are unionized..

because the majority chose unionization.

. If it wasnt for the NWA folks i would say dont try to organize DAL again, EVER, and let em learn on their own.. Its not the same DAL folks, put away your poodle skirt and welcome to 2009!

My advice, is to research and pay attention to it all...

dont buy what the union says 100 percent nor others, just research for yourselves.

there is always another side to everything.


:hugs:

 

[jalbalpa]

Please don't let IQ or the Velvet event in FLL fool you. It is NOT the norm.

Delta management is doing everything to seem like the good guy, remember....many of them came from NW and are just trying to break the unions.

Once its all over, if FA's and ACS are not represented....you will see the real Delta. Trust me when I say, the real Delta is ugly!

Most Delta employees that are against union representation is because of either an emotional barrier (the good ole Delta from way back then isn't gone) or a political barrier (southern mentality...unions are evil). Yet 40% of employees actually votes last year.

 

[BABABOOY]

Please don't let IQ or the Velvet event in FLL fool you. It is NOT the norm.

Delta management is doing everything to seem like the good guy, remember....many of them came from NW and are just trying to break the unions.

Once its all over, if FA's and ACS are not represented....you will see the real Delta. Trust me when I say, the real Delta is ugly!

Most Delta employees that are against union representation is because of either an emotional barrier (the good ole Delta from way back then isn't gone) or a political barrier (southern mentality...unions are evil). Yet 40% of employees actually votes last year.

How would you know what the "real Delta" is ?
What concern is it of yours if we vote or not? just curious.
same goes with goodgirl? What dog do you have in this fight? insults thrown around here
only hurt your cause.