Union elections and the RLA....POLL!

[Dignity]

And its apparent you want to blame the union and everyone else for your gripes and yet you fail to get involved to make a change from within

it is not a gripe, it is the way it is..

it appears, you just dont want people to know what it is really like..

(they are going to find out eventually when the Union is on the property)

 

[700UW]

Come on Ostrich, answer the questions and stop deflecting, I guess its easier for to throw gas on the fire instead of getting involved and making a change.

 

[Dignity]

Come on Ostrich, answer the questions and stop deflecting, I guess its easier for to throw gas on the fire instead of getting involved and making a change.

that would not be an effective way to address the membership or member and a horrendous example how a professional would negotiate/effectively deal with Management.

 

[700UW]

I guess your true colors have been shown to the boards, when you cant answer a question as it would show your wrong, you simply try to deflect reality.

And if you have ever been in negotiations, as I have you would know its not very professional at times, it gets quite heated and angry at time, Management is anything but professional during negotiations, if they were CBAs would not take years to negotiate.

Have fun today Ostrich, maybe you can call DL Labor Relations so they can answer the questions for you.

 

[Dignity]

true colors are shown when those refuse to accept or acknowledge members within the Union have different opinions, beliefs and an idea supporting fairness for all involved.

such much for democracy.

 

[700UW]

True colors are shown when one complains about an organization, yet doesnt lift a finger to get involved to initiate, help or make a change, cause its easier to do nothing and sit on the sidelines and complain about everything.

True colors are shown when someone asks you a question 10 times and yet you keep refusing to answer them because the answers will show that your wrong.

Its called debate, and its ok if your wrong, but I guess you cant be adult enough to admit that.

 

[Dignity]

True colors are shown when some expect to receive respect while at the same time does not even remotely consider the same towards others.

 

[700UW]

Why dont you tell the board why you refuse to answer the question poised to you?

How can one debate if you keep ignoring legitimate questions?

Why do you refuse to get involved and make a change within your union, instead of making attacks on it on a message board?

And respect is earned not given and if you cant hold a debate then I have no respect for you.

 

[Dignity]

And respect is earned not given and if you cant hold a debate then I have no respect for you.

so basically, its that "my way or the highway" attitude.

great.

(now I know we are in trouble.. as that is the mode of thinking that must be changed and what I was referring to initially)

so in essence someone must either agree with your idea or you do not respect them, that is one of the problems at this time, and what we need to navigate away from, because its not effective.

*this is constructive criticism, the idea of bringing issues that are needing improvement to others attention.

 

[Dignity]

Why dont you tell the board why you refuse to answer the question poised to you?

a PMNW Flight Attendant cannot answer questions regarding a situation involving PMDL Flight Attendants pre-merger.

How can one debate if you keep ignoring legitimate questions?

that is two separate issues.. debating a topic and answering a question.

because someone does not answer a question does not dismiss the ability or in this case ignoring a debate.

(this is not necessarily a debate rather than pointing facts and of course issues needing to be addressed)

Why do you refuse to get involved and make a change within your union, instead of making attacks on it on a message board?

its not that people refuse to get involved rather than.. what has managed to happen is simply its become a click.

pointing out facts and real problems is simply..

pointing out facts and real problems.

there is no real democracy internally, we are limited voting at the base, cannot vote for MEC, dues increases or decreases, International Offices and they appoint their friends to various committees (absent a vote)

its a mess.

there are real problems and some attempted to address them, the International refused to change or even consider, however did change the constitution allowing non-active/retired Flight Attendant to assume the role of International President of the entire Association.

(while we cannot even vote for MEC at our own airline)

we have real limitations and that should be known and clarified to PMDL.

they keep saying its your union.

what they fail to convey, it is, but only at your base.

maybe.. in the meantime, the AFA should address their own internal
voting practices or should I say lack of, before petitioning the government to change a voting process to democratic..that is not even reflected at the union.

as it is obvious they can change voting procedures, if they really want to..

I do not support AFA's one sided voting practices, it is not balanced and silences the members.

(that may be "OK" for the majority, however its not "OK" with me)


however ultimately,

I am looking at this from all different angles and points of view.

(its important to try and see a situation from others perspectives for balance)

And respect is earned not given and if you cant hold a debate then I have no respect for you.

OK (see above)

 

[southwind]

Hey Kev, why dont you chime in, your have always posted the differences between NW and DL, now is the time to bring them back.


And Southwind you are now going to be shown for the fabricator that you really are, its so nice when you leave yourself open to be proven posting wrong information. Are you trying to rewrite history, everyone knows Frank Lorenzo killed Eastern, that is why the DOT and DOJ has banned him from every owning or running an airline, did the govt do that to the unions?

Frank Lorenzo was brought in after the damage was done by unions and the previous management, he just finished the job. No way should ramp and AMT's be represented by the same union , which was the case at EAL !

 

[southwind]

That's absolutely not true.

We may have taken the same (or nearly same) pay cut percentage-wise, but those of us at NW were able to recoup much of that through the IAM's sale of unsecured claims, and the subsequent distribution of the proceeds. Most "middle of the road" people (topped out, don't work much OT) made 12-16K.

Money aside, we also were able to secure hundreds of jobs in smaller cities that NW wanted to wipe off the face of the Earth (yes, mine was one of them). How did those at DL that didn't have a voice fare?

Going forward, we still have the following:

*Retiree medical
*2 extra weeks of vacation
*Scope language
*Lower premiums and lower deductible for insurance
*Unlimited accruals of OJI & sick time
*Inclusive lunch for many shifts
*Participation in the IAMNPF
*Grievance process & resolution procedure

That's just a few to start...

All of the above were negotiated. They were not granted to the workforce because it "was the right thing to do," as Anderson is so fond of saying.

*Retiree medical, isn't that what just about drove the UAW and GM into the ground ?
*2 extra weeks of vac., Not sure how many total that means, but if you had 5 at DL, you kept 5
*Scope language, look up in TOPPS
*Lower Ins. Premiums, mine are looking pretty good and haven't been raised in 3 years
*Unlimited OJI and sick, how can a company function with this
*Inclusive lunches, how many shifts do you guys run? 3 here, minights gets a paid lunch
*Participation in IAMNPF, not needed, not unionized
*Grievance process & resolution procedure, Had it for years now !

 

[southwind]

True colors are shown when one complains about an organization, yet doesnt lift a finger to get involved to initiate, help or make a change, cause its easier to do nothing and sit on the sidelines and complain about everything.

True colors are shown when someone asks you a question 10 times and yet you keep refusing to answer them because the answers will show that your wrong.

Its called debate, and its ok if your wrong, but I guess you cant be adult enough to admit that.

I see , only people with union-blinders on , know whats best for EVERYONE else !

 

[Kev3188]

Frank Lorenzo was brought in after the damage was done by unions and the previous management, he just finished the job. No way should ramp and AMT's be represented by the same union , which was the case at EAL !

Well lucky you; this won't be happening at DAL, as the (your) AMT group has spoken.

*Retiree medical, isn't that what just about drove the UAW and GM into the ground ?

Um, no.

*2 extra weeks of vac., Not sure how many total that means, but if you had 5 at DL, you kept 5

I know. The majority of ACS cap out at 4. Some were grandfathered in with 5. At NW, we cap out at 6.

*Scope language, look up in TOPPS

I don't know what TOPPS is, but ACS has *ZERO* defined scope language at DL.

*Lower Ins. Premiums, mine are looking pretty good and haven't been raised in 3 years

If you consider a deductible that is almost quadruple what mine is, then, hey, go with it. My premiums are less as well.

*Unlimited OJI and sick, how can a company function with this

Quite well, actually. This is a benefit everyone is quick to condemn until they find themselves in need of it. Life is inherently risky; I sincerely hope you never find that out the hard way.

*Inclusive lunches, how many shifts do you guys run? 3 here, minights gets a paid lunch

Again, that's Tech Ops, and we're talking ACS. No one in ACS at DL gets inclusive lunch.

*Participation in IAMNPF, not needed, not unionized

That's subjective. I happen to disagree. I like my 401k-and the options it gives me- but understand how important a pension is to many people.

*Grievance process & resolution procedure, Had it for years now !

Not if you work at Delta, you haven't.

 

[southwind]

Wow, hard to believe we don't have a grievance process, since I personally know 2 people who have used the "Conflict Resolution" process, here at Delta, to keep their job and solve other issues!

And I agree with the benefits of building up of poad or sick-time, but unlimited ?