Union elections and the RLA....POLL!

[Kev3188]

A few things:

1. Since Allegheny-Mohawk covers seniority, it's not a great leap to assume it excludes management. Just sayin'

2. Under articles 3 & 13 if nothing can be agreed upon, it is the aritrator who ultimately decides what method to use.

3. There are quite a few methods that can be used, some of which would construed as *very* unfair depending on what side of the table you're on. DOH is simple enough, but what about porportional seniority? How about a ratio based on the number of planes each carrier brought? All (and more) are allowed, even under Macaskill-Bond.

4. It is not the outcome that is judged to be fair or not, but rather the procedure itself.


Beach reading.

 

[700UW]

that law enables seniority protection for all airline employees.

PS:

Dont let the facts get in the way.

Wrong!
If both groups are non-union it does not apply, go read the bill.

 

[Dignity]

Wrong!
If both groups are non-union it does not apply, go read the bill.

who said anything about two groups being non-union?


that law enables seniority protections for all airline employees.

you stated that law "only applies" to union employees.

that is false.

that law can be utlitized as a resource in the event,

it is needed by a group of airline employees.

it is available to all airline employees regarding seniority integration purposes.

 

[700UW]

Go read the law, its states when groups where one or more are unionized under the RLA, straight from McCaskill's Congressional Page.

 

[Dignity]

Go read the law, its states when groups where one or more are unionized under the RLA, straight from McCaskill's Congressional Page.

I have.

there is nothing in the law that states both parties must be in a union and excludes a non-union group.

such as,

union group and union group = may only utilize the law to resolve seniority and exclusive to unions.

(that is false)

or

union group and non-union group = may not utilize the law to resolve seniority.

(that is false)

it is available to a group (union or non-union) under the circumstances, one party needs an additional recourse.

if it is needed resolving seniority disputes.


example:

A union determines they will staple a group to the bottom of a combined seniority list.

*all airline employees, thoughout the industry, that may be affected by that decision may opt to have
that law used as an additional resource and ultimately resolved by an arbitrator,
regardless if they are a union or non union group.

it is available to all airline employees under those circumstances.

the statement it is only available to union airline employees is false.

the law has separated representation and seniority.

 

[700UW]

Guess you dont believe the legislator that wrote the law.

It states where both, or one of the groups is represented under the RLA, so one group has to be unionized, if none are then it doesnt apply.

 

[Dignity]

Guess you dont believe the legislator that wrote the law.

It states where both, or one of the groups is represented under the RLA, so one group has to be unionized, if none are then it doesnt apply.

move along please regarding this subject, I read it and understand it.

you are attempting to correct me over a comment.. I did not make regarding non-union groups.

the law covers all airlines employees (union or non union) that may be affected in a situation where a Union attempts to unfairly and unjustly manipulate seniority or a dispute arises and an option is available,
settled by an arbitrator.

If the right thing was done in the beginning, that law would have never been necessary in the first place going forward.

if you would like to discuss other topics...that is fine with me, but I do not need further clarification on this one.

 

[2BlacknBlue]

move along please regarding this subject, I read it and understand it.

you are attempting to correct me over a comment.. I did not make regarding non-union groups.

the law covers all airlines employees (union or non union) that may be affected in a situation where a Union attempts to unfairly and unjustly manipulate seniority or a dispute arises and an option is available,
settled by an arbitrator.

If the right thing was done in the beginning, that law would have never been necessary in the first place going forward.

if you would like to discuss other topics...that is fine with me, but I do not need further clarification on this one.

Dig,
Do you think it is interference for DAL to offer a "template" letter for f/a's to use to express disapproval of the NMB's change in voting rules? Isn't the company (DAL) supposed to stay neutral?


Just curious.

 

[john john]

move along please regarding this subject, I read it and understand it.

you are attempting to correct me over a comment.. I did not make regarding non-union groups.

the law covers all airlines employees (union or non union) that may be affected in a situation where a Union attempts to unfairly and unjustly manipulate seniority or a dispute arises and an option is available,
settled by an arbitrator.

If the right thing was done in the beginning, that law would have never been necessary in the first place going forward.

if you would like to discuss other topics...that is fine with me, but I do not need further clarification on this one.

If you are non-union you have no voice in the matter you get what somebody decides
If your are union you have a contract with representation to make the represented group whole

 

[Dignity]

If you are non-union you have no voice in the matter you get what somebody decides
If your are union you have a contract with representation to make the represented group whole

Thanks john john

however I do not necessarily believe a Union makes the group whole, generally what happens
is they drive a wedge right down the middle!

*I could direct you to a site right now with former AFA organizers/Leaders/Activists bickering all over again but its just a tad unpleasant to witness repeatedly, the "driving the wedge right down the middle part" all over again.. that sort of doesnt really show "unity" and makes the group "whole".

(some things seem.. will never change)

being stuck in the middle that is..

moving right along....

(hopefully)

 

[southwind]

Dig,
Do you think it is interference for DAL to offer a "template" letter for f/a's to use to express disapproval of the NMB's change in voting rules? Isn't the company (DAL) supposed to stay neutral?


Just curious.

Do you think it is interference for Obama to appoint pro-union nominees to the NMB, to sway decisions made by said NMB ?

Just curious. :blink:

 

[700UW]

Did you think it was fair for Bush to appoint, anti-worker, anti-union and pro-business to the NMB?

And deny TSA employees the right to unionize?

 

[Dignity]

:blink:

Ok.

There is really nothing you are going to be able to do about that now!

They are in office and doing exactly what they want!

(and no one is letting up until everyone is paying someone Union dues!)



the Union is like a good thing gone all wrong!

its like this,

one day you are in your house and you feel like you might need a little help with some chores,
you decide to call someone and come in and help you.
you get on the phone and call the...

"people who can fix things real good"

ring ring (telephone ringing in the background)


You 🙂 : "Hello can you come to my house and fix some things"

People who can fix things : "Oh sure we can we can fix everything and fix it so good! you wont want us to leave!"

You 🙂 : "That sounds great are you affordable?"

People who can fix things : "We are so affordable and when we are done! you are going to get industry leading results!"

You 🙂 : "Bye now see you soon!"

they drive up into your driveway and you can see them sitting in your driveway!
you get up, walk to your door and put your hand on the door knob to let them in!

(your life is just about to change in a turn of a knob!)

you let them in....your house.

they are in....your...house.

People who can fix things "we are so thrilled to be here, we think you are awesome, its going to be a great day, we are going to fix everything in your house and you dont have to worry about one little thing!

(for a nominal fee of course) but other than that, its rainbows, sunshine and good times for all!

....Ya Hoo!"


You go to work and leave them in your house to fix everything.

You come home from work to see how they fixed everything.

You open the door to your house....

:blink:

Your house is trashed, the living room is just wrecked! they are sitting on your couch eating what was left in your fridge and fighting over the remote control and O.M.G!! wearing your clothes.

You: "what happened?" "why" "what?" "WHAT?!"

People who fix things :angry: "Well we couldnt decide who was to do what and while we were deciding, got a little hungry and then my back started to hurt! so... I had to sit down and rest a little bit and then my favorite show came on and then I could barely get up and then when I did.. "Mr. Perfect" wouldnt do his share, I got sick of it, he started fighting, and I wasnt having any of it, then the afternoon soaps came on, and you came in the door. By the way, here is the bill and we took the upstairs master bedroom and moved you down stairs next to the kitchen on the couch (if that is OK).

Oh yeah, we promise to fix everything tomorrow, can you get us some chicken wings and ribs on your way back from the liquor store, we are getting hungry and down right thirsty!

Here is a list of other things too!

Oh my back hurts! you think you can move the TV upstairs to the Master Bedroom too
before you head out and wash our car and while you are at, "Mr. Perfect" likes the new car smell fragrance and the wheel shine too (if that is OK)

You got our bill right?"

 

[LukeAisleWalker]

Ok.

There is really nothing you are going to be able to do about that now!

They are in office and doing exactly what they want!

(and no one is letting up until everyone is paying someone Union dues!)



the Union is like a good thing gone all wrong!

its like this,

one day you are in your house and you feel like you might need a little help with some chores,
you decide to call someone and come in and help you.
you get on the phone and call the...

"people who can fix things real good"

ring ring (telephone ringing in the background)


You 🙂 : "Hello can you come to my house and fix some things"

People who can fix things : "Oh sure we can we can fix everything and fix it so good! you wont want us to leave!"

You 🙂 : "That sounds great are you affordable?"

People who can fix things : "We are so affordable and when we are done! you are going to get industry leading results!"

You 🙂 : "Bye now see you soon!"

they drive up into your driveway and you can see them sitting in your driveway!
you get up, walk to your door and put your hand on the door knob to let them in!

(your life is just about to change in a turn of a knob!)

you let them in....your house.

they are in....your...house.

People who can fix things "we are so thrilled to be here, we think you are awesome, its going to be a great day, we are going to fix everything in your house and you dont have to worry about one little thing!

(for a nominal fee of course) but other than that, its rainbows, sunshine and good times for all!

....Ya Hoo!"


You go to work and leave them in your house to fix everything.

You come home from work to see how they fixed everything.

You open the door to your house....

:blink:

Your house is trashed, the living room is just wrecked! they are sitting on your couch eating what was left in your fridge and fighting over the remote control and O.M.G!! wearing your clothes.

You: "what happened?" "why" "what?" "WHAT?!"

People who fix things :angry: "Well we couldnt decide who was to do what and while we were deciding, got a little hungry and then my back started to hurt! so... I had to sit down and rest a little bit and then my favorite show came on and then I could barely get up and then when I did.. "Mr. Perfect" wouldnt do his share, I got sick of it, he started fighting, and I wasnt having any of it, then the afternoon soaps came on, and you came in the door. By the way, here is the bill and we took the upstairs master bedroom and moved you down stairs next to the kitchen on the couch (if that is OK).

Oh yeah, we promise to fix everything tomorrow, can you get us some chicken wings and ribs on your way back from the liquor store, we are getting hungry and down right thirsty!

Here is a list of other things too!

Oh my back hurts! you think you can move the TV upstairs to the Master Bedroom too
before you head out and wash our car and while you are at, "Mr. Perfect" likes the new car smell fragrance and the wheel shine too (if that is OK)"

You got our bill right?"

Cute. (Someone has lots of time on their hands.)
Can't wait to see the look on your face if you're suspended for 2 weeks because one of your 6 crewmembers put a Christmas light up in the back galley (was cited as foreign object--security called--big mess ensued) and your were working in FC and knew nothing of it. Too bad. ALL crewmembers suspended. No real appeal. (on the panel the 2 managers can overrule the Delta FA peers). Two weeks of lost pay never returned.
Oh..same thing if some self-centered ,nonrevving f/a hides in the lav(on takeoff 'cause she couldn't get a seat) near your j/s and you weren't even working the flight..just commuting home after a 17hr flight. 36-year career: Poof! Gone.
And then let's also hope you're not a vegetarian and have a drug test come out "not consistent with human urine." And you lose your job. For good. Until a pilot's UNION, yes, UNION (guess they finally put the chicken wing down and got off the couch) has to defend one of their own and proves the lab to be at fault. Good thing there are a couple of skinny, vegetarian pilots around.
You won this time. Job returned. Reputation and background: not as easy to put back together.
But again, your story was precious...like a scene right out of the old "Roseanne" show.

 

[Dignity]

Cute. (Someone has lots of time on their hands.)

I think you are just as cute as a cucumber yourself!

just because I think out side the box and ideas come to me a wee bit faster and come up with things quick WOOOSH!... doesnt mean you have to be a hater.. you big ole brute!

obviously you are not interested in what anyone from the other side of this merger has to say who witnessed exactly how it plays out when they are already in the "house".

So you can just get up and walk to that door and turn the knob and find out exactly for yourself, the grass is not greener.

BTW... I am not a Yes person and that means I will never tell anyone what they want to hear, rather than what I think they need to hear, some will not appreciate that, many may, either way I have a conscience and will deliver the message in my own style!

that also means..

(yes I will tell someone if they ask or maybe not! they dont look cute in that outfit.. right to their face!)

instead of them walking out the door looking a wreck just like that living room in the "precious" story.


PS:

I forgive you.

:hugs: