Unionization

[700UW]

According to the IAM Transportation Dept the NMB Certified the IAM in 1995.

Tim as you know there is no such thing as retro pension credit and you did not get the IAM pension till the first round of concessions.

Why do you insist on misinformation?

 

[john john]

I remember the first contract voted down it was the PPG word for word. When the customer service agent were negotiating that try the same crap.

 

[PhxMama]

Maybe it's my ignorance of what unions do, or my perception that they strike if they don't get what they want.. but why unionize? I can understand it if those working on planes or loading baggage unionize. Yeah, I just got this job at US Airways and right now I'm non-union. I am paid the lowest I've ever been paid, even as an intern I was paid more. Why am I with US Airways? Opportunity. Tired of unemployment. I have bills to pay.

Then I step back and realize, how on earth am I going to pay my increasing rent, utilities, car and insurance let alone pay for food, clothing, loans, etc?

I read in the EVT yesterday about workers at Sky Harbour getting a pay increase (new hires) and they were being paid more than some people who had been there for longer than them?

From what I understand, unions "negotiate" pay rates, them based on seniority in the airline. Can any unionized official tell me how they feel about being part of a union and your feelings about it?

I think you answered the question yourself. How long before you get tired of not being able to pay your bills? Would you ever like to own a home in the PHX area? Have you seen how fast home prices have increased? How about fair working conditions without superiors with personal issues(some mental in my opinion) getting in the way of treating their employees like people? Do you think upper management stresses about paying their utilities? Just looking for fairness in the workplace, decent wages and someone to look out for the interest of these employees. Unfortunately, management has failed to do it.

 

[john john]

I think you answered the question yourself. How long before you get tired of not being able to pay your bills? Would you ever like to own a home in the PHX area? Have you seen how fast home prices have increased? How about fair working conditions without superiors with personal issues(some mental in my opinion) getting in the way of treating their employees like people? Do you think upper management stresses about paying their utilities? Just looking for fairness in the workplace, decent wages and someone to look out for the interest of these employees. Unfortunately, management has failed to do it.

And this coming from a person (group) who had a choice to vote in a union or not a year ago look at what they have or what they are going to get -vs- non-union. Hands down UNION SHOP...

 

[openview]

I think Delta has stayed pretty much non-union haven't they?

 

[john john]

I think Delta has stayed pretty much non-union haven't they?

HP fault for not keeping the agents at union wages DL has

 

[Tim Nelson]

According to the IAM Transportation Dept the NMB Certified the IAM in 1995.

Tim as you know there is no such thing as retro pension credit and you did not get the IAM pension till the first round of concessions.

Why do you insist on misinformation?

700, I have no idea what you're talking about so I can't respond.

At any rate, from my understanding, the IBT will be formulating campaign strategies this fall for an organizing drive commencing 'early' in 2007. I'm sure the transition agreement will be a baseline for the campaign.

regards,

 

[fanlube]

You know Tim your record is broken and yet you keep spewing the same old crap.

Don't let 9/11, The Gulf War, Sars and Skyrocketing Fuel Prices get in the way of your misinformation.

If you haven't checked your calendar lately this is 2006, not 1992 which was 14 years ago.

Don't let the fact that US Airways (twice), ATA, United, Northwest, Delta, Hawaiian, Aloha, and numerous other carriers have been in bankruptcy or failed since 9/11.

Don't let the fact the American, Continental, Delta, Northwest, Aloha, Hawaiian, United, US Airways, ATA and numerous legacy and other carriers have obtained concessions from their employees since 9/11 and skyrocketing fuel prices have played havoc on the airline business.

Don't let the fact that ALPA, AFA, CWA, IAM, IBT, PFAA, APA, APFA, TWU and every other union in the airline business has been faced with either taking concessions to try and preserve as many jobs, wages, benefits, working conditions and every other thing as intact as possible in order to ensure their members and the airlines survival.

Don't let the fact that over 100,000 airline industry employees have been laid-off since 9/11.

Don't let the economy and what has happened in the world effect the same old garbage you post time after time after time.

Why don't you look at what has transpired in the industry since 9/11 and fuel prices before you keep blaming the unions for all the problems.

But all those items you just listed only affected the workers, CEO compensation rose at an all time high during these times, the companies are hiring union busting negotiators, the companies are spending millions on ways to circumvent contracts while the unions are still using tactics from the 1960's. Why haven't all the airline unions banded togather and fought back, the airlines sure looked to see what each other was doing and we saw the domino effect. The only thing the unions have done is cross members picket lines, and worry about the dues they can keep!! The unions have to take a share of the blame as do the members, where the unions dropped the ball was after 9/11 not standing togather as airline employees, put all union differences aside and say hey we are going to protect out members and if that meant shutting the whole US aviation system down then so be it!! To many union members have the mindset well the CEO is going to get his anyway so I will vote yes to keep my job, at least it's a job and the unions have went along with that mindset, nows not the time to fight, that is total BS that was the most important time to fight because years of benefits and working conditions were given up in months so sad! No contract should ever be agreed on that makes no provisons for workers raises if management gets bonuses, the companies have changed the way they do business it is time the unions change they way they operate as well. Like you said 700 this is 2006 not 1992, there is no reason we should be making less, the CEO's aren't and neither should we! If the mindset of the unions are what you listed above then the workers are in trouble.

 

[PITbull]

Fanlube,

You are 100% correct...domino effect continues...airline managements are spending millions to bust out the unions, hiring the likes of companies like Ford and Harrison, Jerry Glass & cronies (McKeen, Siegel, Chiames, Cohen, lanier etc including Bronehead bronner and his side kick Lakefield) Even Ashby turned into an azze and subscribed to Jerry G's bible. Just couldn't convince the membership along with some pretty weak union leadership that unions needed to take serious action, change course, and shut aviation down until forced to come back or reasonability prevailed...

No dice. Risk/reward just isn't in aviation...too many folks who feel devalued, unskilled, and underserving of anything...but "a job" to get by.

I personally stayed as long as I could to get the membership through, and I often feel guilty for leaving in Dec. But, I couldn't stay on and appear like I personally was endorsing such actions by execs, BOD's and yes, even the dues grubbing unions legal, and negotiators that had really weak, weak leadership including way up on the International levels. After concession #3 ratified and pensions terminated..my days were numbered.

I've almost doubled my yearly salary since I left. So, my family has no regrets. Not an ounce of it. If my company does well and exceeds performance targets, I'm up for a major bonus. Something I wouldn't of dreamed of in 1 billion years.

Health field, a significantly amazing growth industry

PS: Still have to sneak in the bathroom or wait til wee hours of the night to write on aviation. If my family catches me...all hell breaks out around here...

 

[brown]

In order for a union in the airline industry to strike it takes quite a long time as the Railway Labor Act has strict rules both labor and management must follow.

Contracts in the airline industry to not expire, they become amendable, meaning both parties have to remain status quo till a new agreement is reached or the NMB declares an impasse and imposes a 30 day cooling off period.

Unions protect the members and establish rules, wage rates, benefits, working conditions, grievance procedures and various other things that the company and the union has to abide by.

Back in 1992 when the pilots agreed to concessions the company unilaterally imposed on the non-union ramp and customer service employees massive concessions without any worker having a say.

They cut their pay, froze their pension, eliminated sick time, vacations, oji protection. They downgraded 40% of the full-time workers to part-time and raised their family insurance to over $300 a month. Cut their hours from 40 to as little as 15 and as high as 25 per week.

The outsourced mail, cargo, catering(at some locations) and express work, causing numerous layoffs. In CLT for example you had to have about 13 years with the company to keep full-time.

Myself as a utility person at the time only had over three years with the company, but I worked under a CBA so the company could not touch any of our pay, benefits and working conditions without sitting down with the union, negotiate and have the members ratify concessions.

So I had three years and was full-time in my job with a say and someone on the ramp who had 12 years was decimated.

Unions have pros and cons, but if you ever worked in the airline industry you would see why it is one of the highest industries that is unionized.

And New Hires in PHX on the ramp will not be making more then someone senior to them.

You know in the IBT here at UPS our stock clerks are at $ 21.29 per hour Very awesome benefits

 

[awausairtech]

You know in the IBT here at UPS our stock clerks are at $ 21.29 per hour Very awesome benefits

 

[700UW]

And your stock clerks at HP make $12.00 and hour at US they make $16.67.

And what about GSE at HP, they don't make the same as an AMT, at US GSE and AMT are paid the
same.

Once again, compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges.

 

[PhxMama]

And this coming from a person (group) who had a choice to vote in a union or not a year ago look at what they have or what they are going to get -vs- non-union. Hands down UNION SHOP...

Yes we did finally vote the union (IBT) in! Average increase in wage will be 5.00/hr. Working with east side CWA and formed an association. IBT and CWA working together to protect the interests of US customer service employees. Although it will take almost 2 years to reach pay parity with east c/s agents have a grievance procedure and other protection. Well worth the fight and dues. UNION SHOP previals!

 

[brown]

And your stock clerks at HP make $12.00 and hour at US they make $16.67.

And what about GSE at HP, they don't make the same as an AMT, at US GSE and AMT are paid the
same.

Once again, compare apples to apples, not apples to oranges.

I wasn't talking about fruit 😱 Actually our stock clerks do about the ..........same thing as you, they do have to use there brain and intelligence a bit 😉

 

[brown]

Yep, that is right cause you were all ready at the bottom of the industry and the ATSB even said HP employees did not have to take concessions as you were the lowest paid.

Hey how about Aeroman and Timco?

How many teamsters are there overhauling your planes and doing mods?

What about the teamsters at CO last year?

How about the bang-up job the ibt has done at PSA, losing jobs and cant even negotiate a contract.

Looks like techs at CO are doing pretty good