US Pilot labor thread 12/2-12/8

[NiceLandingCaptain]

There's not enough money in the world to vote 'yes' and give up separate ops.

Many of us would disagree with that "boast." Not only most Westyz, but also many, many Eastyz.

Care to take a poll? I hear the Wilson Center for Public Research is available.......LOL.

 

[Pi brat]

We already hashed this out, during the arbitration. Remember?????

Yes I do. I responded to Jim about my point of view. He jumped in on one of my posts to someone else and it led to this too long discussion. I'm not declaring that it has to be that way, that I will burn the place down or anything else, it's just my opinion. I'm along for the ride in this thing just like you are

 

[nycbusdriver]

I hear the Wilson Center for Public Research is available.......LOL.

Ya mean that outfit that told Prater that ALPA was gonna win?

That Wilson Center?

 

[Pi brat]

Most people also have a sense of humor and have the ability to laugh at themselves. It is called a SELF-DEPRECATING sense of humor. You can get out your Webster's dictionary and look it up since you don't understand. Oh yeah, while you're at it look up the meaning of the word INTEGRITY, you apparently don't understand that either.

Anyone that knows me knows I can be SELF-DEPRECATING, so I do understand it. I just try to not take others along with me, they may not appreciate it. Trailer parks get a lot of fun poked at them, your neighbors might not like it.

Here's one for integrity:



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< integrator integument >

in·teg·ri·ty audio (n-tgr-t) KEY

NOUN:

1. Steadfast adherence to a strict moral or ethical code.
2. The state of being unimpaired; soundness.
3. The quality or condition of being whole or undivided; completeness.

Does defacing company property fall into that category? Does stating on camera to your CEO that "We hate you! (east pilots)" fall into that category? Does mailing poop fall into that category? Does hanging a doll in a cockpit fall into that category? Does posting a video with pilots in uniform followed by a guy is being sodomized by a goat fall into that category?

 

[EastUS]

in·teg·ri·ty audio (n-tgr-t) KEY

NOUN:

1. Steadfast adherence to a strict moral or ethical code.
2. The state of being unimpaired; soundness.
3. The quality or condition of being whole or undivided; completeness.

Does defacing company property fall into that category? Does stating on camera to your CEO that "We hate you! (east pilots)" fall into that category? Does mailing poop fall into that category? Does hanging a doll in a cockpit fall into that category? Does posting a video with pilots in uniform followed by a guy is being sodomized by a goat fall into that category?

Does posessing such an insanely inflated sense of self worth so as to "think" that say, one to four years of anyone's working life "should" be "worth" over twenty of another's fall into that category? Does basing one's "integrity" solely upon what some arbitrator said fall into that category? Do even those that have posted that longevity = seniority, but after the Nic insanity, now conveniently find themselves entirely "flexible" on that belief fall into that category? Does claiming combat theater flying that never was actually done by the west poster so claiming, fall into that category? And..for my westie favorite of all time...Does Leonidas: "I want the captain seat...and most of all, I want every single east pilot to pay for it" fall into that category?

"INTEGRITY MATTERS"...Ummm..sure thing folks...if you say so out there.

 

[InternationalShannon]

Hi , Pilots! East and West I would just like to say, whatever the crap your contract says, both sides look hot in those jackets and hats. Yell at me all you want, but I really needed to bust in here and spew some love.

Your favorite,
SNN

 

[Freighterguynow]

Care to take a poll?

One has already been taken - the removal of alpa.

It's far easier to turn down a TA than it was to remove the established CBA in favor of an unknown and unproven entity. You may want to dwell upon that for a bit ...

 

[USPHX]

Did you guys not try to change the DOH for FAs in the beginning? Were you not around to remember that little movement?

Yeah, USCREW, I was around.

Let me explain why we voiced opposition. Like every other group, self preservation, aka "it's all about me", is a high priorty (although most won't admit it). We did not wish to have taken away from us what we had before the merger or the day of the merger.

For example, I'm smack dab in the middle of what I guess could be considered the "2nd tier" of west F/A seniority. The "1st tier" being about 250 f/a's who hold an 85 hour line with 20-23 days off, consisting of east coast turn days or high yield 2 day trips. My "2nd tier" group of 250 last sat reserve about 22 years ago and can consistently hold a Hawaii line today. We were holding a Hawaii line the day of the merger and were holding Hawaii lines years before the merger.

At least one poster is snickering that with our diluted seniority that my friends and I from this seniority group will lucky if we can hold "junior reserve in BOS" once we get a joint contract. Others, like yourself seem seem to think that is not only equitable but funny.

We Westyz don't particularly think this is fair and that was demonstrated by our "little movement". We, however, did not instigate a mass uprising. We have professionaly adhered to our AFA commitment ,as agreed, unlike your flying buddies with USAPA. We also understand that even though we were the stronger company financially before the merger that WITHOUT the merger we would probably be out of business by now and not flying anywhere. The east somehow fails to grasp that they were in the same boat but actually sinking faster. You and I are still employed today because of the merger.

If sitting "junior reserve in BOS" is the price we Westyz have to pay for being employed by a viable, financially sound company now, than so be it. The east equivalent for the pilots "junior reserve in BOS" was the Nicolau award.

Both sides came perilously close to not only NOT having a "junior reserve" base in BOS but NO bases anywhere. Both sides came perilously close to not only NOT having a Nicolau list but NO seniority list.

"Ho, ho, ho St. Nic(k) is coming to town" came in the form of Doug Parker 3 years ago. We are still astounded that our east pilot friends are oblivious to that fact.

It seens to us that east pilots (in an amazing display of "all about me" selfishnesss) would, rather than voicing unhappiness in a "little movement", prefer to destroy OUR new company than honorably living up to their agreements, as we Westyz are willing to do.

So in your own words:

Any one who goes back on their word is a loser in my book. Hence, a group of individuals that go back on their word in tandem is a "collective bunch of losers".

That is correct

Enjoy PHX....and what will be left of it.

Nice attitude. I guess that just demonstrates the core differences between the east and the west. Sad.

 

[pilotn79]

Does posessing such an insanely inflated sense of self worth so as to "think" that say, one to four years of anyone's working life "should" be "worth" over twenty of another's fall into that category? Does basing one's "integrity" solely upon what some arbitrator said fall into that category? "INTEGRITY MATTERS"...Ummm..sure thing folks...if you say so out there.

Twenty years of service, where? The old usAirways? If have not noticed, that company is gone, dead, buh bye. The new company was formed in 2005. The aquiring party is located in Tempe, Arizona. The very building I interviewed. Where is the HQ of the company that hired you? Just because Doug decided to keep the name, does not mean business as usual. Remember, we could have been called the New Delta or the flavor of the day.

This whole process would have been a lot easier if Doug had picked up the pieces instead of intervening in the impending collapse of usAirways. You would had the opportunity of dusting off those logbooks and interview at LCC. The same thing I had to do after my airline liquidated.

One more thing, are you qualified to be an arbitrator? If not, I would suggest leaving that to the professionals.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Twenty years of service, where? The old usAirways? If have not noticed, that company is gone, dead, buh bye. The new company was formed in 2005. The aquiring party is located in Tempe, Arizona. The very building I interviewed. Where is the HQ of the company that hired you? Just because Doug decided to keep the name, does not mean business as usual. Remember, we could have been called the New Delta or the flavor of the day.

This whole process would have been a lot easier if Doug had picked up the pieces instead of intervening in the impending collapse of usAirways. You would had the opportunity of dusting off those logbooks and interview at LCC. The same thing I had to do after my airline liquidated.

One more thing, are you qualified to be an arbitrator? If not, I would suggest leaving that to the professionals.

This is so deluded, and flies against all the facts as Doug Parker himself said MANY, MANY times at the crew meetings in PHX and PIT.

Saying it over and over again does not change the history, but delusion is very powerful.

 

[pilotn79]

This is so deluded, and flies against all the facts as Doug Parker himself said MANY, MANY times at the crew meetings in PHX and PIT.
Saying it over and over again does not change the history, but delusion is very powerful.

Delusion?
Oh, you have to be a little smarter than that. He feeds you that stuff to keep from hurting your feelings. I'm not concerned about hurting your feelings.

 

[N905TW]

Very simple question for our Easty pilots:

Did you, or did you not agree to binding arbitration to settle the seniority integration?

Easy question, yes or no.

 

[Metroyet]

Standard, nonsensical, utterly childish, and self-righteous rhetoric. What's new there? 🙄 While you're at it though, how about a response to the following west gems?

You, once again, failed to explain to me how I am wrong. Facts are Facts and, once again, you fail to understand that.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Delusion?
Oh, you have to be a little smarter than that. He feeds you that stuff to keep from hurting your feelings. I'm not concerned about hurting your feelings.

Parker? Afraid of hurting feelings?

Didn't you see/attend the last PHX meeting? One of your westie cohorts asked Parker if he would actually fire him if he didn't pay USAPA, and Parker said: "Termination is required."

Doesn't sound like someone looking to spare anyone's feelings.

Of course, if you think Parker is into that, that proves my point about your state of mind.

 

[Pi brat]

No I don’t see bad guys under every bush I see very clearly when someone tries a backhanded insult. Then pretends innocence.

You are flat out wrong about this! It was not an insult, it was a defense of our group. If I am, or one of my fellow pilots is called a collective bunch of losers, you better bet I will answer that. It has nothing to do with the west pilots. That you could find that it did says something.

I have many friends on the west and I have been a jump seater, dead header, and paying passenger on west metal. The only thing close to a bad experience I've had is a F/O that refused to shake my hand and turned and looked out the window, and that hardly hurt my feelings. Everyone else was professional and very nice to me, as I was to them and will be to any west employee, just like I am to the east.