US Pilot labor thread 12/2-12/8

[NiceLandingCaptain]

If all furloughs began with the 3rd list, then east pilots would be displaced into the e-190 and any necessary backfilling of flying on either side could be accomplished through pairing construction.

Of course an E-190 base could be established and crewed by west pilots and the flights could originate in PHX/LAS and end up on the east coast after an intermediate leg (i.e. PHX-IAH-CLT and then carry out the remaining days in the east system). While there might be a limit to the number of pairings that could be built like this, it may be sufficient to cover the required flying. It would be interesting to see if this would be feasible.

This is absolutley possible: I once jumpseated on a Mesa RJ from CLT to SAV. The PHX based crew was on day three of their four day trip.

Doing stuff like this would be quite feasible with the 190's.

 

[N924PS]

Are these "friends in high places" the current crack management team Parker dragged over from the east who are currently running the company into the ground? Might you actually be one of these lofty people in high places, sir/ms? Why the mystery? Please do enlighten us.

And who do they report to? Your beloved Doug! And his right hand man Scott!

Aren't they the team that makes the final decisions about the direction of the airline?

 

[CactusFlyr]

Had a trip through PIT a few days ago. First aircraft was doa and had to wait on the next airbus to arrive so that we could take it, 3 hours later. Had a sit down in the food court with another west crew that was also delayed.

Low and behold, there sits Bradford. Have a second look and I am 99% positive it is him. He looked a bit aged from the last time I saw him, but that is to be expected. If any of you east guys can check his schedule, assuming you can do this, I would love to know if it is him for sure.

Anyways, long story short, the guys gives me the bird and promptly gets up and walks off. I shake my head and have a good laugh.

 

[YVINTERN]

Had a trip through PIT a few days ago. First aircraft was doa and had to wait on the next airbus to arrive so that we could take it, 3 hours later. Had a sit down in the food court with another west crew that was also delayed.

Low and behold, there sits Bradford. Have a second look and I am 99% positive it is him. He looked a bit aged from the last time I saw him, but that is to be expected. If any of you east guys can check his schedule, assuming you can do this, I would love to know if it is him for sure.

Anyways, long story short, the guys gives me the bird and promptly gets up and walks off. I shake my head and have a good laugh.

What do you expect, the man spews of USAPA propaganda 😉 If he actually came over and said Good Morning I'm sure the Easties would be in an agenda to unchair him 😉

 

[Megasnoop]

New hires are still working as of today, while more senior pilots are on furlough. So much for DOH bulldogs at USAPA.

Elevation, your own John MacIlena filed a grievance on the furloughs that the DOH bulldogs (aka USAPA) is aggressively pursuing. But then, the judge said that grievance was a loser. see below.

Judge Wake is seriously cracking the whip on all parties!
Appeal, you say? I believe that USAPA would need to post a sizable bond in that event...very sizable!

And usapa will get the money for the appeal from dues money/agency fees. thanks for the help, electric. And BTW, the susie loophole is dead.

So let me get this right. Since we are in separate ops and since more furloughs are coming from the west due to market conditions in PHX and LAS, you are saying that management should furlough more from the east instead and then transfer pilots from the west to make up for the shortage created in the east. The transferees will then become east pilots, unless of course this is TDY duty.

dont forget, Piedmont, TDY was outlawed by the TA, 18 months before the NIC. But since all the new-hires are going to be eventually furloughed anyway, all were talking about here is a few pilots being furloughed earlier than the west thinks is fair. Even a win in the Mac arbitration that one wont pay a lot. snooper

 

[BoeingBoy]

all were talking about here is a few pilots being furloughed earlier than the west thinks is fair

I'll admit to being guilty of thinking the same - it's just some pilot's from the West list being furloughed prior to all the New Hire list pilots.

Then it occured to me - New Hire pilots have a seniority order among themselves as well as being junior to East and West list pilots. For example, if the New Hires flying out west were the most senior New Hire pilots and were furloughed prior to those New Hire pilots below them flying in the east, they would be furloughed out of order also.

Jim

 

[in rebellion]

Goodbye to all,

My comment, asking weather or not Eye was hot, has been termed a personal attack warranting a three day suspension.

The moderating has become extremely capricious, apparently personal attacks are allowed by some and others are completely gagged.

As a free exchange of ideas is clearly not the goal here I bed you all adieu.

Ableoneable.


Moderator note:
This account is suspended. Folks you may NOT register with a different screen name to get around suspensions.

 

[Megasnoop]

I'll admit to being guilty of thinking the same - it's just some pilot's from the West list being furloughed prior to all the New Hire list pilots.

Then it occured to me - New Hire pilots have a seniority order among themselves as well as being junior to East and West list pilots. For example, if the New Hires flying out west were the most senior New Hire pilots and were furloughed prior to those New Hire pilots below them flying in the east, they would be furloughed out of order also.

Jim

I should have been more clear. Jet-lagged, just got back from europe.Two sets of new-hires, E and W. West pre-merger pilots being furloughed prior to all new-hire easties is the legitimate issue. I think the company handled that wrong. But by the time this furlough mess is over, all new-hires will be gone. So the claim may be for old westies being furloughed prior to the east (third list) new hires. I see a claim for west pilots hired prior to the merger being entitled to pay, based on DOH, LOS, whatever. does it make any sense? Does a win in the MacIlvena grievance help these guys? Dont know. I dont talk to Tracys people. Seems like if the company had half a brain, they just eat the overage of west old timers until all the new-hires were gone, especially with oil at $49/Bl. Oh, almost forgot, we lost $488 Million on all our parker-touted fuel hedging program. snooper

 

[wopr21]

I think the ONLY ones improving their financial position will be the gaggle of attorneys on these multiple lawsuits.

I wonder how many pilots will reach retirement age prior to this whole affair being resolved?

This is the only way it will be resolved. It will take most of the east to retire.

Then the west will be wondering who they are fighting and it won't matter anymore.

Either way the west will inherit this airline. I have yet to hear from a west pilot where he/she will
be in a DOH seniority list in 7-10years. They are afraid to admit it.

Regards

wopr

 

[exB717Flyer]

Either way the west will inherit this airline.

In 1999 when I was hired by TWA our class was told we would inherit the airline. Today I'm barely avoiding being furloughed from my second major carrier. Your prediction for the West is hollow since it presumes neither the industry or the airline will change in any way. Guess what: things change. Even George Nicolau understood that.

 

[cleardirect]

This is the only way it will be resolved. It will take most of the east to retire.

Then the west will be wondering who they are fighting and it won't matter anymore.

Either way the west will inherit this airline. I have yet to hear from a west pilot where he/she will
be in a DOH seniority list in 7-10years. They are afraid to admit it.

Regards

wopr

Using USAPA DOH list and C&R. Still an F/O waiting for every east active F/O and most of the furloughed F/O to upgrade before any west F/O’s get our chance.

Better question. Where will this airline be in 7-10 years? Still in business? Merged with someone else? Still waiting for USAPA to get it’s first contract? What happens if US Airways follows it’s history and files bankruptcy again? How do we collect a bad IOU 7-10 years from now.

When does the west get to collect on the two IOU’s we already hold? The 190’s and the 757 slots? USAPA’s track record of paying off debts is not good.

Why is it that the west has to pay for your advancement with our 7-10 years?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Two sets of new-hires, E and W. West pre-merger pilots being furloughed prior to all new-hire easties is the legitimate issue.

I think there's general agreement on the issue of New Hire list pilots still on the payroll while West list pilots are furloughed, but there's only one set of new hires - those on the New Hire list - per the TA. There is not an East New Hire list or a West New Hire list.

I've been guilty of thinking of the New Hire list pilots as a monolithic block - only considering their seniority relative to East and West list pilots. However, it finally hit me that they have a seniority order among themselves that must be followed for furloughs per the East/West contracts. So if a more senior pilot on the New Hire list is/was furloughed while a more junior New Hire list pilot is still working on the other side of the East/West divide, that is a contract violation every bit as much as a West list pilot furloughed before a New Hire list pilot.

Hope you get a good nights sleep after the pond crossing.

Jim

 

[nic4us]

This is the only way it will be resolved. It will take most of the east to retire.

Then the west will be wondering who they are fighting and it won't matter anymore.

Either way the west will inherit this airline. I have yet to hear from a west pilot where he/she will
be in a DOH seniority list in 7-10years. They are afraid to admit it.

Regards

wopr

Although it is irrelevant, I will tell you were I will be if by some fluke of the justice system you are allowed to steal my seniority. I will be working some place else, as I do not associate with people the likes of that, much less work with them. I am not afraid to admit where I would be, since you must know, in 10 years I would be closing in on retirement with pilots who did not even work here when the merger happened still senior to me, still active and still... well..lets just say less than honorable. We all know who is afraid to admit to what they are doing.

 

[BoeingBoy]

There are no career expectations . Just look at history.

wopr

Isn't "inheriting the airline" one of those career expectations that doesn't exist...

Jim

 

[N924PS]

Although it is irrelevant, I will tell you were I will be if by some fluke of the justice system you are allowed to steal my seniority. I will be working some place else, as I do not associate with people the likes of that, much less work with them. I am not afraid to admit where I would be, since you must know, in 10 years I would be closing in on retirement with pilots who did not even work here when the merger happened still senior to me, still active and still...

Good luck in your endeavors elsewhere. The way things are going with the economy we may all be seeking employment next year.

Look at the bright side: with the upcoming bailout of the Big 3, maybe a UAW job on an assembly line with a pension might be available. But flying their Gulfstreams doesn't look so good anymore.

I think those 15 year East pilots, many of whom were actually flying at Mid Atlantic (aka USAirways), would think you were stealing their seniority, if Nic prevails.