US pilot labor thread 6/28-7/4

[nycbusdriver]

And I have met some, they are out there...good guys too...minority/majority? I don't know...I think, maybe majority....

But when you have a "cult-like" leadership-run-amuck out there...it must be a difficult position for them to be in. I really think it must suck to be out there under that scenario.

The good news out west, in my opinion, is that the dues-dissenting senior guys will get served walking papers 10 at a time in whatever order the company chooses..maybe just in seniority order...(which will not shut down the operation, as they hope) and it should result in fewer and fewer FUR's out west...maybe even none.

Unfortunately, I don't think the situation will play out the way your scenario envisions. It will only take the first few pink slips delivered via certified mail from the COMPANY for 99.999% of the westies to "get religion" and pay up. There will be no mitigation of furloughs due to the senior westies getting canned. They will cave quickly and meekly as soon as it finally becomes obvious to them that this isn't irrelevant middle school student council stuff.

 

[elixir]

These 190 rates are particularly preposterous in light of the fact that one of our express carriers, Republic, pays its relatively junior pilots more money to fly the E170....the very same E170's that the east pilots paid for with their pensions. Getting the E190 pay rates to at least 90% of Group 2 is a MUST in the near term.

YES...I flew the 170/175 for Republic under J4J...the CA's make more than mainline 190's.

I was a Captain on that plane in the East system for almost 2 years....to all the westies I gave J/S to: you're welcome...too bad it's not being reciprocated enough today.

I'll repeat that: as a FUR pilot, flying for Express (commuting from PHX) I was giving J/S to west pilots all the time...while I was off-property. Now, many of you in west are denying the J/S...I see how it is...

The potential for the "backfilling to the 190" and it's benefits to the company are obvious..we must make it not so tempting for them to do so....and I'll personally be thankful as well...I'd like to stay on property.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Let's just hope that the NC can improve rates somewhat. I'm not overly optimistic, with the conditions being what they are.

ALPA NEVER should have agreed to those stupid rates.

 

[elixir]

Unfortunately, I don't think the situation will play out the way your scenario envisions. It will only take the first few pink slips delivered via certified mail from the COMPANY for 99.999% of the westies to "get religion" and pay up. There will be no mitigation of furloughs due to the senior westies getting canned. They will cave quickly and meekly as soon as it finally becomes obvious to them that this isn't irrelevant middle school student council stuff.

😉

I know...it will be over swiftly, I'm afraid.

Just wanted to give them something to think about.

 

[luvn737s]

Unfortunately, I don't think the situation will play out the way your scenario envisions. It will only take the first few pink slips delivered via certified mail from the COMPANY for 99.999% of the westies to "get religion" and pay up. There will be no mitigation of furloughs due to the senior westies getting canned. They will cave quickly and meekly as soon as it finally becomes obvious to them that this isn't irrelevant middle school student council stuff.

Seniority isn't the issue, delinquency is. So you have to can the most delinquent first. Small problem: all are equally delinquent.

 

[EastUS]

These 190 rates are particularly preposterous in light of the fact that one of our express carriers, Republic, pays its relatively junior pilots more money to fly the E170....the very same E170's that the east pilots paid for with their pensions. Getting the E190 pay rates to at least 90% of Group 2 is a MUST in the near term.

Indeed. I would argue that, given that these aircraft are inherently...actually clearly... substitutes for the '37s..that we should pursue equivalent pay rates, without even any 10 percentile deficit. No reason not to put up a fight at any/all levels these days.....

 

[elixir]

Let's just hope that the NC can improve rates somewhat. I'm not overly optimistic, with the conditions being what they are.

ALPA NEVER should have agreed to those stupid rates.

I know, and sadly, it'll cost something to fix, I bet. Obviously, I have a personal interest in seeing this at least addressed to mitigate these FUR bid results. But, on a grander scale, this 190 which is running on 73 routes has the potential to decimate group 2 pay at least on a 1 to 1 scale with every 73 still out there. It can't replace an AB...but there's a lot of 73's that WILL be parked, and if replaced with the 190....look out.

 

[EastUS]

...but there's a lot of 73's that WILL be parked, and if replaced with the 190....look out.

My same thinking on that...and...if it's to be 737 "=" a 190..then "so be it" for pay rates as well. I won't even start on Alpa/the RJ devastation/etc..BUT..it's time to redraw the boundaries. Enough's frikkin' Enough.

 

[elixir]

Seniority isn't the issue, delinquency is. So you have to can the most delinquent first. Small problem: all are equally delinquent.

Do you make this up as you go, or does Leo have his hand up your "freckle" and you just move your lips?

Quote us, chapter and verse, where it dictates that ONLY the MOST delinquent get fired first...since you are basing your entire gamble on it. And, even if so, do you think that wrongful termination lawsuits (even if they occur) endear your cause to the company?

You will all be replaced, in the order required by the company, under what will be termed a 'wildcat strike" by the west.
It's illegal, you will have no USAPA backing, and you will all perish in the order the company sees fit under the circumstances.

have a nice day.

 

[EastUS]

Do you make this up as you go, or does Leo have his hand up your "freckle" and you just move your lips?

Quote us, chapter and verse, where it dictates that ONLY the MOST delinquent get fired first...since you are basing your entire gamble on it. And, even if so, do you think that wrongful termination lawsuits (even if they occur) endear your cause to the company?

You will all be replaced, in the order required by the company, under what will be termed a 'wildcat strike" by the west.
It's illegal, you will have no USAPA backing, and you will all perish in the order the company sees fit under the circumstances.

have a nice day.

I admire your/any patience yet seen in even humoring such fantasies with a response. Clocks are ticking/etc.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Seniority isn't the issue, delinquency is. So you have to can the most delinquent first. Small problem: all are equally delinquent.

Keep telling yourself that. Then, decide what your next career will be. Maybe elixir will get to stay when you and the folks that think like you do hit the bricks.

The company can terminate in any order they wish, but they must TERMINATE.

 

[EastUS]

Keep telling yourself that. Then, decide what your next career will be. Maybe elixir will get to stay when you and the folks that think like you do hit the bricks.

Works for me.......Oh Wait!...That's rash of me..let me think..umm..who would I rather fly with?...Ummm..Elixer?..or Luvydovey737s?...OK..that didn't really take long 😉

 

[elixir]

Keep telling yourself that. Then, decide what your next career will be. Maybe elixir will get to stay when you and the folks that think like you do hit the bricks.

The company can terminate in any order they wish, but they must TERMINATE.

HEY...! now, I like where this may go....

Hey, LEO....what size hat do you wear?
Can you leave it for me?

(you want the captain seat...I just want your hat when your gone...)
😉

 

[tazz]

I know, and sadly, it'll cost something to fix, I bet. Obviously, I have a personal interest in seeing this at least addressed to mitigate these FUR bid results. But, on a grander scale, this 190 which is running on 73 routes has the potential to decimate group 2 pay at least on a 1 to 1 scale with every 73 still out there. It can't replace an AB...but there's a lot of 73's that WILL be parked, and if replaced with the 190....look out.

In order for the company to replace 737's with 190' on a 1 for 1 basis they will have to ask for relief from the TA's minimum fleet requirements. The Negotiating Committee should only grant such relief if the pay scale is brought up to main line.

 

[elixir]

In order for the company to replace 737's with 190' on a 1 for 1 basis they will have to ask for relief from the TA's minimum fleet requirements. The Negotiating Committee should only grant such relief if the pay scale is brought up to main line.

I'm not arguing here, I don't understand. If it is a 1 for 1 replacement aircraft, and it is considered a "mainline" aircraft, how does it affect the min fleet language?
Seriously. Maybe I'm missing something here, but this could be really bad for the west too.
I don't know if you have 190 payscales out there yet ( I think not)...but they need to get fixed before they become the "plane du' jour" while parking the 37's.