US pilot labor thread 6/28-7/4

[PA18]

Agreed in full. I'd think that going after the ridiculous abuse of the 90-95 hour "flex" months..(as if such BS is not actually now standard practice), would be a good place to start pushing back a bit.

Additionally.and outside of any "flex" BS....it's completely disgusting behavior for anyone to seek out maximum hours for themselves ,....while others are being put off working at all.

It's still happening, and to an even greater degree.

Last year, especially in the summer, most reserves were flying almost every day, especially F/O's, and many were bumping up to the 100-hr. FAR limit.

This year, very few reserves are breaking guarantee; and those that are usually have vacation in those months, or are in initial training.

It's true, the 90- to 95-hr. "flex" has become the norm. However, nobody is holding a gun to the blockholders' heads telling them they have to fly 90 hours. They're doing it voluntarily.

West slogan: "Save Dave"

East slogan: "Gotta get my 95 hours"

 

[EastUS]

It's true, the 90- to 95-hr. "flex" has become the norm. However, nobody is holding a gun to the blockholders' heads telling them they have to fly 90 hours. They're doing it voluntarily.

Well...you already have my take on such behavior = Disgusting, most especially when seen in the light of imminent furloughs. There's sadly, always some "It's ALL about MEEE!" types in any group of human beings. I'd say that those will need "addressing". What's frustrating is that I don't see any immediate fix for it, outside of establishing a fresh contract with more prohibitive provisions. The "flex" stuff has made 90-95 seem "normal", and imho, it'd be currently difficult to sanction blockholders (those electing to cheerfully hose their fellows) for flying max time...while the most egregious offenders can just point fingers at the overall op, and cry: "See!...everybody's flying said hours!"/etc.

On a purely pragmatic level: How does one truly establish any degree of concerned awareness in those ....ummm....errr..."people" who are so self-obsessed as to either not realize, or simply not care that just a few of them flying "max" equates to another pilot kicked to the furlough curb? I can't see any realistic solution to that, other than some form of viable sanctions...and again...I'm thinking/afraid that we're stuck at present, by way of existing contractual issues. I wish it were not so.

PS: I've certainly been wrong before..and there may well be those who are within the Union Officers, that have some better inkling as to how to improve the scenario. As always..I'm just spouting personal opinion.

 

[Elevation]

Will the Great USAPA be putting a plan together to present to Parker to minimize furloughs ala CO and DAL or are they just going to sit around and watch this train wreck happen again to the same people. Job sharing, lower guarantees,2nd year pay at the regionals who hire and buyout packages etc. should be publicly proposed to the company and there response printed for all can see. Some one pointed out a correspondence from Bradford that it's the fuel prices, (even though they say in there negotiation update that fuel is BS excuse for a better contract) and nothing can be done about furloughs. They wanted to lead a union, now is the time.

 

[elixir]

I would like to see the union address the issue of recalled FUR's who left J4J CA spots at $60-75K for the "last chance" with guaranteed Group 2 or better pay. Those same people are now looking at no pay protection and published 190 rates which are unrealistic for anyone with a family and 4-5 years of seniority. Many, including myself, may be forced to resign if something isn't done to address this.
The 190 has long been considered improperly paid, but one could argue it's the 'entry-level" airplane in the fleet...NOT SO, if it is replacing the 73's.

FIX THE 190 PAYSCALES.

 

[CaptBud330]

I wonder how many of the people that are bitching about USAPA and what they are doing to mitigate the effects of the furlough are NOT paying dues, aka, West pilots?

 

[elixir]

I wonder how many of the people that are bitching about USAPA and what they are doing to mitigate the effects of the furlough are NOT paying dues, aka, West pilots?

I would guess a good many. I'm still hopeful for some "fixes" going forward, but I can't stay on this property on the 190 at current rates, I've done the math.
To me, this is hugely important, because if you look at the 190 rates, the PEAK is at $52...from year 5 on through 15. And if the company replaces the 73 with these, more and more senior FO's will be looking at $52/hr even with 10+ years seniority.

 

[Leonidas]

I would guess a good many. I'm still hopeful for some "fixes" going forward, but I can't stay on this property on the 190 at current rates, I've done the math.
To me, this is hugely important, because if you look at the 190 rates, the PEAK is at $52...from year 5 on through 15. And if the company replaces the 73 with these, more and more senior FO's will be looking at $52/hr even with 10+ years seniority.

That's shocking that you can only hold a 190 fo slot, we have captains over here with that doh, how is that possible?

 

[AAA73Pilot]

FYI:

Deleted for repetition

 

[nycbusdriver]

That's shocking that you can only hold a 190 fo slot, we have captains over here with that doh, how is that possible?

And notice that Elixir is talking about leaving the company due to the 190 pay, and NOT demanding that he take a west captain position. Of course you folks will never get that no one is looking to push you people out of your captain seats. Once we have a single contract, though, I suspect further furloughs will be based on LOS, not DOH. That should adequately piss everybody off.

 

[Elevation]

I wonder how many of the people that are bitching about USAPA and what they are doing to mitigate the effects of the furlough are NOT paying dues, aka, West pilots?

Are you saying that USAPA is using furloughs as hostages for money? Or are you tying two different subjects together for amusement?

 

[Leonidas]

And notice that Elixir is talking about leaving the company due to the 190 pay, and NOT demanding that he take a west captain position. Of course you folks will never get that no one is looking to push you people out of your captain seats. Once we have a single contract, though, I suspect further furloughs will be based on LOS, not DOH. That should adequately piss everybody off.

He's not demanding that because he can't. otherwise he would be up in arms, interesting that his los is less than dave o'dells yet usapa doh wil make him senior to dave who has worked twice as long as he had.

 

[checksix]

USAPA Furlough Update

Fellow Pilots,

As we all sift through the aftermath of Bid 08-04 and get ready for the West bid on approximately July 15, 2008, we want you to know that your Furlough Committee, along with all of the USAPA Officers and Committees, will leave no stone unturned in their effort to mitigate some of the pain caused by the Company’s actions.

In the last update, we had information about WIA and unemployment; if you have any questions please feel free to contact me or Keith Rodriguez at 412-389-1980 or email at fly4usair@netzero.com.

We are also re-establishing the Pilot Voluntary Fund for pilots in need; we will have this program back up-and-running in the near future for both donations and pilots who may need help. USAPA is in the process of setting up a payroll deduction option along with direct donations and hope to have that set up in the next week. Even though we hope to have this information out this week, please feel free to contact us now with questions or for those who want to donate or that may have needs.

At this time, your Furlough Committee is in the process of gathering insurance information and bids to put forth a package to the BPR for those that may need help with insurance after the furloughs start. Once a package has been accepted by the BPR, per USAPA bylaws it will go to a vote by the pilots.

Reiterating what we know regarding the timing of the furloughs, they will not start until September 1, 2008 (with a chance of as early as August 15, 2008). While the Company has not provided the exact dates or names of each month’s furloughs, we know that the Company has indicated that they intend to furlough 10-30 a month from the West and 10-20 a month from the East. The actual figures are also dependant upon training capabilities and staffing needs as we go through the Holiday season. There is the possibility that some months may actually have zero furloughs.

If you have missed any updates from the Furlough Committee or any USAPA committee, you can find them on the “Members Onlyâ€￾ section of the USAPA web site at USAirlinePilots.org, in the Furlough Committee section. Please also check the “Updatesâ€￾ section for the latest information.

We hope to have more information out shortly and, as always, please feel free to contact anyone from the Committee. We would also like to remind you to please make sure your address and contact information is up-to-date with the USAPA office to expedite information to you in a timely manner.


Courtney Borman - Chairman
cborman737@cs.com
240-463-9003

Keith Rodriguez
fly4usair@netzero.com
412-389-1980 WIA

DeWitt Ingram
paravion@hotmail.com
561-379-2351 EVLA/VLA

LeRoy Young 310-962-2973

 

[elixir]

He's not demanding that because he can't. otherwise he would be up in arms, interesting that his los is less than dave o'dells yet usapa doh wil make him senior to dave who has worked twice as long as he had.

FYI, Leo, you don't know me, what I'm capable of, or when or why I throw my arms anywhere. Do not speculate about me, my capacities, or my inspirations about this company.

 

[Elevation]

Was there really any real info in that update? A page of fluff from the big bad USAPA.

 

[EastUS]

And notice that Elixir is talking about leaving the company due to the 190 pay, and NOT demanding that he take a west captain position. Of course you folks will never get that no one is looking to push you people out of your captain seats. Once we have a single contract, though, I suspect further furloughs will be based on LOS, not DOH. That should adequately piss everybody off.

I'm of the mindset that we must NEEDS address the 190 pay rates in the current negotiations. It's preposterous to have a "mainline" aircraft flying around at such rates. Given that the 190's postioned to become the "new" 737...we have to seek appropriate pay rates.

As per: "Of course you folks will never get that no one is looking to push you people out of your captain seats." Quite honestly sir?...I'm thinking that the majority of the brain-dead, pathetic west-twits here, who endlessly post nothing more than residual "AWA-Uber-Alles/Gimme MY Nic!!/your seats!!...It's ALL entirely about MEEE!" BS....aren't even worth "talking" to anymore...but that's just my opinion.