US pilot labor thread 6/28-7/4

[luvn737s]

OK...you first.

Thats how it will work.

You think that you can subbrogate the process on a perceived technicality....and in that, you are wrong.

you will become part of a list, generated by USAPA, CONFIRMED by the company...and they will begin the lawfully MANDATED terminations under the law. In an order they choose...show me proof of any different interpretation...

what size hat do YOU wear, sir...maybe it'll fit better than LEO's.

It's not a technicality, it's a fact, based on the dues obligation starting for everyone on the same date. If this was an issue with a mature union and a member or fee payer became delinquent, the same time table would apply, but the date the process would run out would be unique to their case. In this case 1800 people will come due at the same date. Yes the company will have to make choices, it will be interesting to see what they choose to be in their best interests.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

That' really stupid. If you think that the company has to fire all 1800 at one time, YOU'RE WRONG. some may stay months while the company retrains their replacements, but more than likely, all but a few will pay up.

I can only hope that you and a few others are not them (the ones that pay up, of course).

If I were the company, I would process the terminations in this order:

1. The pilots on the most overstaffed equipment by position, most senior first. This would be immediate, with replacements meeting the pilots at the jetway. If the pilot refused to pay and sign the dues checkoff, he/she would be escorted off the airport property and his/her ID badge retained.

2. Other equipment, as pilots are retrained to fill the positions, in seniority order. The association could give the company some relief on the TA negotiated minimum aircraft to accommodate this if pilot shortages occur. Remember, the terminations are sanctioned by the association. Pilots involved in this method would be given the opportunity to pay, and if they refuse, would be given a date of termination. There would be no opportunity to appeal the termination once hiring and training of the replacement pilot has taken place.

I don't really expect this to happen. Once the heads start to roll, there will be a line to pay.

I only hope that if folks are unhappy at LCC, they can go and allow one with a better attitude to stay.

 

[elixir]

It's not a technicality, it's a fact, based on the dues obligation starting for everyone on the same date. If this was an issue with a mature union and a member or fee payer became delinquent, the same time table would apply, but the date the process would run out would be unique to their case. In this case 1800 people will come due at the same date. Yes the company will have to make choices, it will be interesting to see what they choose to be in their best interests.

Well, I guess it is a good thing to be able to choose one's method of destruction. Almost a pirate thing.

It really doesn't matter..your beef will be with the company, not USAPA. When you 'bravey-boys" sue after you're fired, you can litigate until you are absolutely green in the face.

In the end, it will be the best sparkler I've ever seen...except for the internet dude who stuck a bottle-rocket in his a$$ and lit it expecting a "launch".

Happy sparklers, boys.

 

[AAA73Pilot]

C'mon you can do better than that. They are not terminated for the amount they owe, only that they owe. If someone is $0.50 behind or $5K behind in dues after the proper process has been followed, they face the same potential termination. There is no fast-track to the process.

Next.

You asked for my opinion. I just gave you one possible way. There are others. Ultimately it's up to the company to make that determination of who's first. How about you? Since you want to be the one to file a discrimination charge. I have no problem with who the company picks from a list forwarded by the union.

 

[Elevation]

The change, my friend, is called LOA93....a name you will learn to hate.

maybe you could have prevented it..if only you had some participation in the union who negotiates for you.

You know who to blame...they have names in BOLD in a large lawsuit you'll soon hear a lot about.

Wow LOA93 doesn't open until end of 2009 that's a ways away, also the company won't negotiate a separate contract only a joint so I'm not sure of your point exactly. EMB rates stick until 2015!

 

[AAA73Pilot]

Why does USAPA pretend that they can change those rates in this economic climate without a concession somewhere else? Summer 2015 is when the company will talk turkey, USAPA will need to be honest to the sheep. But it's not all bad you get a 2% raise in 2012 and 2014

Thats ok if you disagree with my opinion. I never said USAPA is capable of changing the rate. I do hope they can though, for those being displaced to that hhmmm airplane. We have another poster who is trying to decide to stay or leave. As for the sheep part, to my knowledge there has never been an update professing any such change. Why don't you offer your opinion by sending the NAC a message. I can only assume that your attempted jab at the east is there won't be a contract by 2012? Thats easy, my opinion, your assumption will be wrong. But thats me.

 

[elixir]

You asked for my opinion. I just gave you one possible way. There are others. Ultimately it's up to the company to make that determination of who's first. How about you? Since you want to be the one to file a discrimination charge. I have no problem with who the company picks from a list forwarded by the union.

maybe we can do a "write-in" deal....

"America's next unemployed pilot"

I see gameshow written all over this, as long as they last out west.

 

[Elevation]

I can only assume that your attempted jab at the east is there won't be a contract by 2012? Thats easy, my opinion, your assumption will be wrong. But thats me.

No that is the contractual raise in 2012 and 2014 of 2% on the EMB190 rates.

 

[elixir]

It's not a technicality, it's a fact, based on the dues obligation starting for everyone on the same date. If this was an issue with a mature union and a member or fee payer became delinquent, the same time table would apply, but the date the process would run out would be unique to their case. In this case 1800 people will come due at the same date. Yes the company will have to make choices, it will be interesting to see what they choose to be in their best interests.

OK...this is too good to pass on.

Ok, lets just say, on bid 08-04...I'm displaced to the 190...along with 75 other guys (maybe senior to you...in fact)

Some are on the AB (me), some are on the 73...some are on the bottom of the 75 DOM...

why don't you share how the company will reduce these guys...in accordance with your 'terms"

we are ALL DISPLACED ON THE SAME BID...how and in what order will we go out?

I'm listening...

 

[AAA73Pilot]

No that is the contractual raise in 2012 and 2014 of 2% on the EMB190 rates.

Current contract. Hmm OK then..... Whats your point? Is it your assumption there won't be a new contract til 2012/2014? Leaving the 190 pay rates alone til then? Amazing.....simply amazing.

 

[elixir]

OK...this is too good to pass on.

Ok, lets just say, on bid 08-04...I'm displaced to the 190...along with 75 other guys (maybe senior to you...in fact)

Some are on the AB (me), some are on the 73...some are on the bottom of the 75 DOM...

why don't you share how the company will reduce these guys...in accordance with your 'terms"

we are ALL DISPLACED ON THE SAME BID...how and in what order will we go out?

I'm listening...

Maybe I stuttered..we are ALL DISPLACED AT THE SAME TIME...ON THE SAME BID...ON THE SAME DATE.

Under your premise, how will we go out?

eyes?

hair?

straight teeth?

%ick size?

I'll wait while you consult the "oracle" on this one.

I see that many of the "army' have left. Nice.

My position stands. I confess I am a die-hard "eastie"...but we really need to address the 190 issue guys, for real. I never thought I would even say the word'190"...

why would I?

Until I upgrade...then, maybe.

There are guys getting shafted...and the group needs to know about the dirty little secret called the 190 FO position.

look into it, please.

Happy trails, guys.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Wow LOA93 doesn't open until end of 2009 that's a ways away, also the company won't negotiate a separate contract only a joint so I'm not sure of your point exactly. EMB rates stick until 2015!

The east contract not being amendable until 2009 and the EMB rates until 2015 means nothing. That changed once the company asked for a combined contract, which effectively opened both east and west contracts at that time. Nothing says a contract cannot be opened before the amendable date if both parties agree

The fact that the company is in negotiations with USAPA is proof that the amendable dates of everything are moot.

 

[elixir]

The east contract not being amendable until 2009 and the EMB rates until 2015 means nothing. That changed once the company asked for a combined contract, which effectively opened both east and west contracts at that time. Nothing says a contract cannot be opened before the amendable date if both parties agree

The fact that the company is in negotiations with USAPA is proof that the amendable dates of everything are moot.

The fact that the company won't talk unless it is in a 'joint" fashion is the end-game for the west in their trivial pursuits.

The west has lost their 'seat at the dinner"...as it were.

Frankly, I hate that it has come down to this.

Nowadays, I guess the west is empowering the East to decide when the sun sets....

OK with me...

 

[Elevation]

Nothing says a contract cannot be opened before the amendable date if both parties agree

Why do you think that the company would agree to changing the 190 rate?

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Why do you think that the company would agree to changing the 190 rate?

So that the pilots will agree to a JOINT contract. It IS a two way street you know. Or, maybe you don't.