US pilot labor thread 6/28-7/4

[oldiebutgoody]

Did the NMB specify which contract the pilots should use?

The NMB didn't say we were one group, they said we had ONE representative. HUGE difference. IN fact we always had only one representative. first ALPA, then USAPA. That's all the NMB ruled on.

 

[EastUS]

Eastus: back at you! Despite your lofty rhetoric you display the same hypocrisy. The 2004 DOH will go before the 2007 DOH and that appears ok with you. As long as it is a west pilot's DOH.

By no means good sir. Apparently..your presumably "fast read" missed the following: EastUS: "I should note that I obviously don't believe furloughs should ever be done on the basis of the west-east split, or EVER merely by way of "relative" positioning."

I'm NOT 'OK" with such. Furloughing out of seniority's hardly "OK" with me..as you, out west, would so love to do to the east via Nic. Although there's nothing the least bit "funny" about furloughs: I think it wryly amusing that you're so busy squeeling out there over exactly the same thing happening in reverse in this instance. I'm a firm proponent of DOH and would additionaly, favor consideration of LOS in any furlough situation. The postings establishing west hypocrisy were done purely based upon west/Nic "logic"..and I'm little surprised that you "missed" that. I find the current furlough scenario usefull by way of clearly establishing west hypocrisy...which is never hard to find in abundance.

I'll properly leave any/all Hypocrisy to the established experts......That being those for whom 'Integrity Matters" so very much 😉 As for your retort?..I'll note my earnest belief that you WOULD be perfectly "OK" if it were the east pilots being tossed out in favor of absurdly junior west people.....Isn't that the whole point of Nic?..and your "Righteous Postion" out there?.....

 

[sharktooth]

Eastus: back at you! Despite your lofty rhetoric you display the same hypocrisy. The 2004 DOH will go before the 2007 DOH and that appears ok with you. As long as it is a west pilot's DOH.

Did the east hire "new" pilots in 2007? or were they furlough returnees, in which case their DOH would have been before 2004. or, perhaps, you are talking about the west side, in which case if the west contract states that a DOH 2004 goes before a DOH 2007, that would be pretty interesting.

Would you please be more lucid about what you are trying to say?

 

[sharktooth]

The NMB didn't say we were one group, they said we had ONE representative. HUGE difference. IN fact we always had only one representative. first ALPA, then USAPA. That's all the NMB ruled on.

Thank you. I was trying to be subtle to the poster. Perhaps too subtle.

 

[tazz]

Just want to clarify some things here:

A vast majority of west pilots did not send feces through the mail, nor did they call any telephone numbers unnecessarily. This same majority is not blindly following any type of self imposed leadership, awappa nor usapa. For the first time ever the former AWA pilot group agrees on one thing, that Section 8d of the usapa constitution and bylaws cannot be tolerated. You can argue the "conditions and restrictions" all you want but we all know that the majority will decide those and they, too will be intolerable for former AWA pilots.

The east pilots find the Nicolau decision intolerable for much the same reason the west oppose DOH. The east group will not recognize Nicolau, nor will the west recognize that one small section of usapa's constitution. This will never change, and for good reasons.

West pilots have decided collectively and individually never to join usapa as long as section 8d exists. Agreed, we will one day be forced to pay but, for us, there is no harm in waiting to do so until the last possible minute. We see no value in contributing and being part of the process because, for us, the fact is the process will continue to steamroll our needs as long as we remain in the minority. The majority of us aren't wacko rebels out to burn the house down. We just aren't interested in contributing to our own demise. The majority of us are also quite patient.

The east group will not recognize the Nicolau decision. That's been said. Nicolau, however, is not dead. The management of our company has accepted the seniority list Mr. Nicolau created. They agree that it meets all of the criteria they put forth and was the result of a process that everyone agreed to from the start. It also conforms to the recent legislation addressing airline mergers and seniority.

Quite simply, the west pilots gain nothing by joining the usapa bandwagon at this time. They do recognize that with a little patience there is a possibility they will prevail. Joining the usapa bandwagon will pretty much destroy any chance of that happening. That is why the majority of us are simply waiting. A handful of us are smacking the hornet's nest of the east in places such as this board and they are the ones everyone loves to hate. The rest of us will quietly do what is in our best interest. It is the only choice we have.

 

[tazz]

The NMB didn't say we were one group, they said we had ONE representative. HUGE difference. IN fact we always had only one representative. first ALPA, then USAPA. That's all the NMB ruled on.

The NMB stated we were one employee group for the purposes of determining our one representative

 

[tazz]

Did the east hire "new" pilots in 2007? or were they furlough returnees, in which case their DOH would have been before 2004. or, perhaps, you are talking about the west side, in which case if the west contract states that a DOH 2004 goes before a DOH 2007, that would be pretty interesting.

Would you please be more lucid about what you are trying to say?

Yes, there are =/- 120 new hires, off the street, after furlough recalls.

 

[EastUS]

A vast majority of west pilots did not send feces through the mail, nor did they call any telephone numbers unnecessarily.

You must be so very, very proud then, on behalf of all your "heroic warriors" that did. I know I'm fully impressed by them, and thusly, by your noble group in general. Their actions spoke far louder than your words do. Their "Integrity" certainly does "Matter"..as did the "Matter" sent through the mail....., and you can search elsewhere to find any proper "Pity-Party", or even the least bit of compassion for any/all trials (figurative or literal) within your noble crusade.

 

[EastUS]

Yes, there are =/- 120 new hires, off the street, after furlough recalls.

Since "some" seem to miss anything, the least bit subtle in nature; I'll note the following to be purely of the Devil's Advocate, comparitive logic nature, and that I DO firmly, as always believe in DOH/LOS/etc....upon which all furloughs should be based.

But hey Folks!...Here we have west people crying about an issue of "relative" seniority....Most strange indeed, especially from the lovers of St Nic:

So..There's 120 "SaveDaves" here then?...Ummm..SO?..What's your "relative" problem with them being kept..and yours being flushed?. Arent' all "relatively" just as junior within the two sections?" You guys/gals wanted seniority to be "relative"...and..in this round of scheduled furloughs...you got your wish. Why happiness and joy arent' rampant out west's a complete mystery, given the recent triumph of "relative seniority"....One "might" almost imagine that "relative" seniority isn't truly "fair" in your minds out there. It seems clear that "relative seniority" is just fine..only so long as "It's Relatively ALL about MEEE!"

Where'd all that "Integrity" go?

 

[checksix]

USAPA UPDATE
July 2, 2008



1) The BPR released a letter to the pilots yesterday which was signed by all of the Officers and BPR Members which discusses Management’s plans to schedule eight Senior International US Airways Captains for a day of both classroom discussion and simulator training in what they are calling “Fuel Conservation Training.â€￾ This event is not approved training; it is discipline and intimidation, plain and simple. Management is incorporating a strategy of picking out a few of our members in an attempt to make examples of them, and are proceeding with a blatant disregard for approved procedures, past practice and our Collective Bargaining Agreement. Please read the BPR letter on this serious issue; this letter has been posted and emailed to all pilots.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------


2) During Monday's Telephonic Board Meeting, the USAPA Board of Pilot Representatives unanimously passed the following resolution which seeks to extend the Expanded Voluntary Leave (EVLA) provisions of the East Contract to the West pilots in order to help mitigate the effects of the announced furlough.

WHEREAS US Airways has announced reductions in system capacity and block hours, and

WHEREAS the Company has, in conjunction with such capacity and block hour reductions, announced its intentions to furlough approximately 300 US Airways pilots, including both East and West pilots, and

WHEREAS pursuant to LOA 93 of the East contract, the Company has offered Expanded Voluntary Leaves of Absence (EVLAs) to East pilots for the purpose of mitigating the number of East pilots to be furloughed, and

WHEREAS the West contract does not provide for EVLAs, and

WHEREAS the Association is dedicated to mitigating furloughs among all US Airways pilots,

THEREFORE BE IT RESOLVED the Board of Pilot Representatives hereby directs the Negotiating Advisory Committee to negotiate an agreement with the Company that would provide for an EVLA similar to that contained in the East LOA 93, to be completed in a timely way so as to be available with the next displacement bid under the West CBA.


--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

3) CLT BPR Members held their first Domicile Meeting this week, which was the first Domicile Meeting of the US Airline Pilots Association. The meeting was well-attended, with about 70 pilots present at one point in the meeting and about 100 pilots total throughout the meeting. All four Officers of the Association had the opportunity to brief the pilots during the meeting. In addition, the Negotiating Advisory, Safety, Communications, Membership Services and Pilot 4 Pilot Committees all provided briefings and answered questions.




USAPA Communications | US Airline Pilots Association
877-678-7272 | USAirlinePilots.org

 

[sharktooth]

Yes, there are =/- 120 new hires, off the street, after furlough recalls.

and, of course, they are getting furloughed.

So, how is your statement true that west 2004 hires will be furloughed before east? 2007 hires? Could you clarify that some more?

 

[tazz]

Since "some" seem to miss anything, the least bit subtle in nature; I'll note the following to be purely of the Devil's Advocate, comparitive logic nature, and that I DO firmly, as always believe in DOH/LOS/etc....upon which all furloughs should be based.

But hey Folks!...Here we have west people crying about an issue of "relative" seniority....Most strange indeed, especially from the lovers of St Nic:

So..There's 120 "SaveDaves" here then?...Ummm..SO?..What's your "relative" problem with them being kept..and yours being flushed?. Arent' all "relatively" just as junior within the two sections?" You guys/gals wanted seniority to be "relative"...and..in this round of scheduled furloughs...you got your wish. Why happiness and joy arent' rampant out west's a complete mystery, given the recent triumph of "relative seniority"....One "might" almost imagine that "relative" seniority isn't truly "fair" in your minds out there. It seems clear that "relative seniority" is just fine..only so long as "It's Relatively ALL about MEEE!"


Eastus, this is getting tedious. The post merger new hires are below everyone, east and west. Their relative seniority IS below every east and west pilot. Clearly stated in the TA. For all your pontification and pretension you truly don't appear to be all that bright

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Eastus, this is getting tedious. The post merger new hires are below everyone, east and west. Their relative seniority IS below every east and west pilot. Clearly stated in the TA. For all your pontification and pretension you truly don't appear to be all that bright

YOU'RE the one that doesn't get it. You said that West guys were getting furloughed before East guys hired in 2007, which is not true.

Talk about not being very bright....

 

[tazz]

You must be so very, very proud then, on behalf of all your "heroic warriors" that did. I know I'm fully impressed by them, and thusly, by your noble group in general. Their actions spoke far louder than your words do. Their "Integrity" certainly does "Matter"..as did the "Matter" sent through the mail....., and you can search elsewhere to find any proper "Pity-Party", or even the least bit of compassion for any/all trials (figurative or literal) within your noble crusade.

Not proud nor impressed withany such action. Certainly not searching for a pity party nor compassion here. Just trying to c-l-a-r-i-f-y. I noticed that you did not respond to the actual message. Will it take you a few hours to compose another blowhard response to the message or are you just speechless because you just don't get it?

 

[tazz]

YOU'RE the one that doesn't get it. You said that West guys were getting furloughed before East guys hired in 2007, which is not true.

Talk about not being very bright....

Oldie: the west has less than 20 new hires. The east has over 100. Our CP office states possible numbers of 20 in Sept, 30 in Oct. Do the math. In October "save Dave" will be gone and unless the east furloughs 100 in September a 2004 hire will be gone before a 2007 hire. Do you need graphics?