US pilot labor thread 7/13-7/20

[ableoneable]

You've actually the perception required to note that? Here's something new. I'm both surprised and shocked!

"BTW, mister experience, how much flight time did you have when USAir hired you?

Bet it was south of 2000hrs."

Guess again genius. That was my third airline uniform, and I wasn't even hired by USAir, but rather absorbed..and that all only started after a stint on active duty USAF, with continuing USAFR service...While we're doing some "reality checking": Know the following true history: Being hired at a half-azzed joke of an operation like AWA was properly cause for serious sympathy "back when"...and I only ever personally knew of one unfortunate..who interviewed poorly it seems..that even actually took the job for all of 3 months..before finally getting on with an actual Airline.

In any case..go back to to the cowardly back-stabs..whle you're at it...thump your tiny chests about your supposed "Integrity"..maybe "Stuff" an envelope or two, make a few prank phone calls..heck..hang a child's doll or two...and generally live up to your proud "heritage" as it's been so clearly established...Have fun..that's what kids do best

I can find better usages of my time volunteerig with counseling troubled youth. It's certain that "conversing' with many of your "side" this past year has kept those abilities fairly fresh. I think we're done here.

Wow.

Someone is really impressed with themselves.

I did not realize that the reason you spent so much time here was because you felt the rest of us needed counseling that only you could provide. When you pass by mirrors and other shiny objects are you able to resist the temptation to drool over that special someone for whom you have an unbridled passion?

Guess again genius. That was my third airline uniform, and I wasn't even hired by USAir, but rather absorbed..and that all only started after a stint on active duty USAF.....

I will re-phrase.

So, mister experience, how much flight time did you have when you were hired by the airline that was later absorbed by USAir? Or better yet, how much time did you have when you were hired by your first, and by your own pompous claim, vastly superior airline?

Bet it was south of 2000hrs.

All of the vast experience you had when initially hired would probably not make you competitive for a job from the mid 80s onward.

Being hired at a half-azzed joke of an operation like AWA was properly cause for serious sympathy "back when"...and I only ever personally knew of one unfortunate..who interviewed poorly it seems..that even actually took the job for all of 3 months..before finally getting on with an actual Airline.

Here again are your true colors, flying in the breeze of your own hot air, for all to see.

AWA was clearly a "joke of an operation" compared to USAir, an airline mighty enough for your vast ego.

Of course USAir had a checklist to tell a pilot how to put a seatbelt on because the pilots there were only capable of read and do flying.

Here, of course I jest, and I would not want any of the other USAir pilots to take offense for I am aware of what lawyers can do when let loose.

The point is, I am aware, as most mature professionals are, that skill levels are fairly uniform across the various brands.

Those like EastUS, who believe that they are truly special, and who obviously work for a superior organization becasue, after all USAir (or AMR/UAL/DAL, wherever I happen to work.) hired ME, and that is proof enough that they sought out the aviator with superior genes.

I am so sorry I have offended the great and powerful OZ. Please don't leave our humble web board. I am in need of your superior wisdom.

You must be popular in your flightdeck with the only one whose opinion really matters. ..............Yours.

...Sigh...

 

[ableoneable]

That was a direct answer to one of your little gerbil's jibes genius = "BTW, mister experience, how much flight time did you have when USAir hired you?
Bet it was south of 2000hrs."

I almost missed the "little gerbil" swipe.

You must have been the star of your kindergarten debate team.

"Facts! Forget facts! No one cares. Call the opponent a gerbil or a ferret and then smile smugly. This is the key to victory." -- EastUS's college debate coach during the final prep.

....I'm gone.

Were it only true. You can't seem to avoid going back on your word, however.

I somehow believe you will be back, calling names, rolling your eyes, sighing and stomping your feet. You know, debating EastUs style. It's so cool, most effective too. 🙄

I'd naturally figured on some AWA ferrets going for a back-stab-after-the-fact opportunity here...as is in keeping with smarmy westie notions of "Integrity".

Should some utterly nutless little weasel like yourself ever take up such a wager...I'd be impressed.

Ferrits, Gerbils and nutless Weasels Oh My.

Say it three times fast and tap your heels together East and you will wake up snug in your own bed.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Goooooood morning posters and moderators! I really need to find an AA meeting somewhere - that would be Aviation Anonymous.

Speaking of anonymous - how about this for an idea. In an effort to raise the quality of debate, at least on this particular thread, how about posting our real identities instead of hiding behind avatars? How about name, rank and base?

Is this permitted by the board rules and regs?

Would this possibly contribute to the level of civility?

Anyone interested? C'mon ableoneable, leonidis, prehilill - you show me your's and I'll show you mine.

New rules, anyone who posts anonymously does not get a response.

Beginning after this post - that is.

I have seen nothing on these boards that rises to the level of a job terminating offense, or even disciplinary action. But should some still feel "exposed", simply re-register as a newbie, and make it known you were a previous "senior" or "veteran" so all can have a sense of how long you have been engaged with this issue.

The postings that were made on the ALPA national board were often much more inflamatory and vicious, but they always ended with a real name, and the members themselves managed to police themselves.

C'mon - it'll be fun.

 

[ableoneable]

I have seen nothing on these boards that rises to the level of a job terminating offense, or even disciplinary action. But should some still feel "exposed", simply re-register as a newbie, and make it known you were a previous "senior" or "veteran" so all can have a sense of how long you have been engaged with this issue.

The postings that were made on the ALPA national board were often much more inflamatory and vicious, but they always ended with a real name, and the members themselves managed to police themselves.

C'mon - it'll be fun.

I will hold open the door for you sir. Please, you go first, I insist.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Only if you promise to follow me in.

 

[ableoneable]

Only if you promise to follow me in.

I can not agree to follow. So Sorry.

I know a pilot who posted the following; "I am never going to pay USAPA one thin dime."

This statement alone and of itself resulted in said individual having to write a check for $5000 to retain legal representation. Though his case was dismissed he is still out five grand, for now.

Were I you I would not be so hasty to judge the posts here to be too innocuous to invite legal action.

We live in a litigious time.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Question to the moderators, or anyone who has accurate information. I know for a fact that posters on the national web board hosted by ALPA posted remarks that were far, far worse than "I will not pay a dime in USAPA dues". They also posted their names.

How are the legal liabilities different between this venue and that? I know of no legal, financial or disciplinary penalties that befell those who posted over there.

Where is HP FA? Enlighten me Edward.

 

[ableoneable]

Question to the moderators, or anyone who has accurate information. I know for a fact that posters on the national web board hosted by ALPA posted remarks that were far, far worse than "I will not pay a dime in USAPA dues". They also posted their names.

How are the legal liabilities different between this venue and that? I know of no legal, financial or disciplinary penalties that befell those who posted over there.

Where is HP FA?

Keep in mind that there is no standard that must be met to file a lawsuit.

It only takes a lawyer willing to take your money, especially if he/she does not mind looking like an idiot when the case finally comes before a judge. After all the lawyer did get paid and that may be all that matters to him/her.

If I say I am offended by the way you part your hair I can file suit, as long as I find a lawyer willing to take the case. The fact that a court will bounce it is not relevant.

ALPA tended not to sue it's membership. That is the primary difference.

 

[Megasnoop]

I was off a little. NRP stand for National Route Program. But the purpose remains the same.

Sounds right, Oldie. I couldn't remember what it stood for. I don't know if we still use it domestically. I don't think we used it on our side before the merger. Maybe only a west thing before. The lecture we got was don't ever ask for direct. The priority was if your on NRP and the other guy wasn't, the other guy got the 30 degree off course vector. S

 

[Piedmont1984]

If memory serves, NRP does not apply less than 200nm from origin or destination. I also think the program has lost much of it's dependability. ATC does what it needs to do.

If you accept direct PHL to DEN and your original best time route was 80nm further north, you may actually burn several hundred more pounds of fuel and take tens of minutes longer to get there because of adverse winds. The jet stream can be very narrow certain times of the year.

Best to get an update from dispatch on whether the direct would be worthwhile. Only takes a few minutes.

 

[cleardirect]

Interesting reading so far.

Had a great week this last week. On vacation, sat in the VIP suite for the NASCAR race in Chicago, did not have to read all of this nonsense for awhile and a frivolous lawsuit was dropped against the west pilots. Good times.

HP FA thanks you for your information and analysis. Well done.

It is almost comical how the usual suspects have changed their tune since the dismissal. All we heard was "that it was for sure and that the defendants should be fired. These are serious charges." I guess when an impartial third party looks at things a differing opinion comes out. Kind of like the Nicolau award. A neutral third party looks at the facts and comes to a conclusion. To bad it is far from the east/USAPA fantasy world.

Could one of you big time USAPA supporters explain something to us? Was it Bradford, Theuer and the boys pushing Seham to file ridiculous frivolous charges to damage west pilots or was it Seham pushing for the law suit. I am curious who was the driving factor behind it?

Because now you have to ask yourself. If it was the “leadershipâ€￾ pushing this action and Seham agreed to go forward. What kind of poor legal advice is he giving USAPA? He should have told USAPA that it was incorrect in federal court and in NC court. That RICO does not apply.

But if it was Seham that pushed it, again what kind of legal advice is he providing? Never forget this is the same lawyer that told USAPA that Nicolau has gone away. I personally would start to suspect his advice.

USAPA had 5 lawyers working on this case. Ask yourself what did that complaint cost? What was the return on the investment? If as they say USAPA just wanted the activity to stop why the big time RICO charges. If it was illegal, go to a judge bring your evidence and get a restraining order. If something was actually mailed. Name the person and let the federal authorities deal with it. Save yourself some money.

Do a little research. Read the actual dismissal order. Don’t take USAPA ward about what happened.

I certainly hope that a majority of pilots on the east are starting to take notice of the missteps of this “leadershipâ€￾ so far.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Actually I can handle "missteps" if that turns out to be the case, when it is finally resoved, which it is not.

Much more preferable than stepping on one's own body parts, as AWAPPA exhibited in allowing it's membership to even engage in such activity.

How much has it cost them and their membership?

 

[hp_fa]

Question to the moderators, or anyone who has accurate information. I know for a fact that posters on the national web board hosted by ALPA posted remarks that were far, far worse than "I will not pay a dime in USAPA dues". They also posted their names.

How are the legal liabilities different between this venue and that? I know of no legal, financial or disciplinary penalties that befell those who posted over there.

I do not know of the postings on the ALPA board, however let me hazard a ** guess **.

USAviation, while being a privately owned board, allows access to the public. If you wish to post on USAviation you must register, but as far as I know there is no check made of any kind on the identity of the registering person other than an e-mail address. The sole exception ** may** be the IP address of the registering person, but even then that could be a person registering on a non-owned computer.

I expect that the ALPA board is different because it is not accessible to the general public and you must be, or possibly have been an ALPA member. Therefore the public doesn't have access and cannot read whatever is posted and, therefore, the company would have far less interest in having any desire to restrict what is posted and read there.

Does that hypothesis make sense to you?

 

[Megasnoop]

It is almost comical how the usual suspects have changed their tune since the dismissal. All we heard was "that it was for sure and that the defendants should be fired. These are serious charges."

I never saw those "quotes"

Could one of you big time USAPA supporters explain something to us? Was it Bradford, Theuer and the boys pushing Seham to file ridiculous frivolous charges to damage west pilots or was it Seham pushing for the law suit.

Who cares. The point was made. The BS stopped. If it starts again, I bet we refile in state court. The post office will do whatever it has to do. But time to be done with it.

I certainly hope that a majority of pilots on the east are starting to take notice of the missteps of this “leadershipâ€￾ so far.

What we notice you hate us and we don't take direct. If oil doesn't come down, we can all hate each other in the unemployment line. S

 

[Piedmont1984]

I do not know of the postings on the ALPA board, however let me hazard a ** guess **.

USAviation, while being a privately owned board, allows access to the public. If you wish to post on USAviation you must register, but as far as I know there is no check made of any kind on the identity of the registering person other than an e-mail address. The sole exception ** may** be the IP address of the registering person, but even then that could be a person registering on a non-owned computer.

I expect that the ALPA board is different because it is not accessible to the general public and you must be, or possibly have been an ALPA member. Therefore the public doesn't have access and cannot read whatever is posted and, therefore, the company would have far less interest in having any desire to restrict what is posted and read there.

Does that hypothesis make sense to you?

I suspected my suggestion would be a lead balloon.

I think that posters who hide behind their anonymity often express themselves quite differently than they would if they attached their names to their posts.

Some accountability or concern of reputation may actually raise the level of discourse.

Thanks HP.