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US Pilot Labor Thread 7/20-7/26

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What are you talking about ???

I just wanted the pilot group to know that Freedoms views are not the views of the fleet group.. Our union will stand hand in hand with you if ever needed
O-man is correct. The radical ramper is completely alone. He has never been for anything or stood for anything if it did not benefit himself directly. His intentions are completely self serving. He has delusions of grandeur and a misguided sense of self worth and importance. The best advice I can give to our friends above the wing is to ignore his ramblings.
 
just for the record guys. Freedom's views are strictly his and his only. It's sad that it puts a bad reflection to the thousands of hard working fleet service people out there.

Hi Orioleman,

I appreciate your comments, it's refreshing to hear that this posters views, work ethics and standards are the few and far between. Thanks for speaking up.
 
O-man is correct. The radical ramper is completely alone. He has never been for anything or stood for anything if it did not benefit himself directly. His intentions are completely self serving. He has delusions of grandeur and a misguided sense of self worth and importance. The best advice I can give to our friends above the wing is to ignore his ramblings.

Thanks, Hadenough, your perspective is much appreciated.
 
I think the pinheads forgot to post their PHX meeting- you know, the biggest pilot domicile in the system. It is kind of hard to miss, unless they are up to something sinister. Oh how stupid people continue to do stupid things...

Pinheads? The irony is killing me! Perhaps if you were to carefully read the Merger Committee update again you would realize the council briefings are part of scheduled upcoming USAPA domicile meeting. Last time I checked, PHX is still not participating, hence, there is no PHX domicile meeting being called by PHX USAPA Officers. That's not to say you would not be invited to attend a meeting at a base that is holding a USAPA domicile pilot meeting.

And you're calling them pinheads.......... 🙄

P.S. Was that you in the USAPA PHX video getting all riled up?
 
Sorry Oldie, but if you knew DB and HH as well as what those of us on the west do, you would realize that their "opinions" have absolutely no credibility. Having no friends (other than their fan club, DB & HH) or outside life away from this airline allows them to constantly seek retribution from those that have "called them out" previously. A lonely life and large hard-drive does not make their opinions anything close to educational material.

I believe you might have at least one guy like that on the east...so you know of what I speak.
Even if you don't like or agree with their conclusions, you can read the statements from YOUR lawyer and make your own. That, my friend, is AN EDUCATION.

I found it VERY INTERESTING, even though I had heard it all before, except for the information about the Wye River meeting.
 
I think the pinheads forgot to post their PHX meeting- you know, the biggest pilot domicile in the system. It is kind of hard to miss, unless they are up to something sinister. Oh how stupid people continue to do stupid things...
PHL is not on the list, either. I guess they're plotting against the PHL base, also.

Maybe there's something in the C&BL about not representing bases that start with "P". Yea, that's the ticket!
 
Even if you don't like or agree with their conclusions, you can read the statements from YOUR lawyer and make your own. That, my friend, is AN EDUCATION.

I found it VERY INTERESTING, even though I had heard it all before, except for the information about the Wye River meeting.


From the recent USAPA lawsuit against some of the AWA pilots, you'll recall that Freund simply went after the weakest link in the USAPA lawsuit at that point in time; that basically, it was not in the proper venue. Having won on that point he put the plantiffs back to square one.

Now, look back Freunds statements during the East MEC vs West MEC of last summer:

Thus, the “arbitration award†Plaintiffs purportedly seek to “vacate†is in actuality the proposed pilot seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy that ALPA will adopt as its bargaining position to be presented to the Company, but which (like a union bargaining position in any matter) the Company is not required to accept. Application, Ex.1 at 2,9 (ALPA will present to the company the merged seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy arbitration procedures, and “ALPA will use all reasonable means at its disposal to compel the company to accept and implement the merged seniority listâ€). Plaintiffs seek review of this ALPA bargaining position developed through ALPA Merger Policy, and, while couching it in the terms of “vacating†and “arbitration,†the relief they actually seek is a review of the product of ALPA’s Merger Policy, and, ultimately, alteration of ALPA’s bargaining proposal to the company…Plaintiff’s Application to “vacate†an “arbitration award†that does not establish any enforceable seniority rights in a collective bargaining agreement with the Company, but which merely sets out ALPA’s bargaining position to be presented to the company, is not a state law claim at all but rather an artfully pled Federal claim for breech of Duty of Fair Representation.

It would look like once again, Freund simply went for the weakest link of the lawsuit at that point in time; that the arbitrated list was ALPA's bargaining positon that had not yet been presented to the company. Since it had not yet been presented to the company, it was like any other bargaining position and something that the company is not required to accept. Therefore, as a bargaining position the lawsuit did not belong in the state court but rather in Federal court as a DFR lawsuit. It would seem that Freund prefers to conserve the resources of his client by using the minimum effort to get the desired result.

Now we all know that after this court pleading and after Wye River, ALPA National did eventually present the arbitrated award to the company and the company accepted the award as presented. The company agreed that the arbitrated list met the requirements laid out in the TA that was signed by the legal representatives of both pilot groups and the company. No doubt Freund's statements would have been modified had they been made after the list's presentation and acceptance by the company.

This is what your MEC was trying to tell you at the time of the USAPA vote; that it was by working within ALPA that the east had it's best chance of modifying the arbitrated list...while it is a bargaining position and prior to presentation to and acceptance by the company.
 
This is what your MEC was trying to tell you at the time of the USAPA vote; that it was by working within ALPA that the east had it's best chance of modifying the arbitrated list...while it is a bargaining position and prior to presentation to and acceptance by the company.

Good one :lol: Yeah..Alpa was gonna' "fix things" allrighty...zero doubts whatsoever on that score....ummm...yeah. Per the Nic list? =The company couldn't possibly care less. Why should they be otherwise disposed in any case?..Fear of some mighty AWAPPA suit?...or perhaps, simply overwhelming and unconditional love for the famously reasonable, ala "and we hate you guys" west pilot group?....Spare me/us all. Who are you honestly trying to convince with such nonsense?...Yourselves?
 
Deleted by Moderator. For the umpteenth time, namecalling is not allowed. The corn is getting ripe in the hot July sun, needs picking, and we can provide pickers. A word to the wise...
 
ALPA National did eventually present the arbitrated award to the company and the company accepted the award as presented.

The company "accepted" the award in the sense that a defendant accepts a subpoena from a process server. It does not mean that by accepting the document that there is any agreement involved. Parker accepted the piece of paper that had the Nic information on it. The fact that the west is furloughing 175 pilots from their own seniority list speaks volumes about just what was "accepted" by the company.
 
From the recent USAPA lawsuit against some of the AWA pilots, you'll recall that Freund simply went after the weakest link in the USAPA lawsuit at that point in time; that basically, it was not in the proper venue. Having won on that point he put the plantiffs back to square one.

Now, look back Freunds statements during the East MEC vs West MEC of last summer:

Thus, the “arbitration award†Plaintiffs purportedly seek to “vacate†is in actuality the proposed pilot seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy that ALPA will adopt as its bargaining position to be presented to the Company, but which (like a union bargaining position in any matter) the Company is not required to accept. Application, Ex.1 at 2,9 (ALPA will present to the company the merged seniority list developed through ALPA’s Merger policy arbitration procedures, and “ALPA will use all reasonable means at its disposal to compel the company to accept and implement the merged seniority listâ€). Plaintiffs seek review of this ALPA bargaining position developed through ALPA Merger Policy, and, while couching it in the terms of “vacating†and “arbitration,†the relief they actually seek is a review of the product of ALPA’s Merger Policy, and, ultimately, alteration of ALPA’s bargaining proposal to the company…Plaintiff’s Application to “vacate†an “arbitration award†that does not establish any enforceable seniority rights in a collective bargaining agreement with the Company, but which merely sets out ALPA’s bargaining position to be presented to the company, is not a state law claim at all but rather an artfully pled Federal claim for breech of Duty of Fair Representation.

It would look like once again, Freund simply went for the weakest link of the lawsuit at that point in time; that the arbitrated list was ALPA's bargaining positon that had not yet been presented to the company. Since it had not yet been presented to the company, it was like any other bargaining position and something that the company is not required to accept. Therefore, as a bargaining position the lawsuit did not belong in the state court but rather in Federal court as a DFR lawsuit. It would seem that Freund prefers to conserve the resources of his client by using the minimum effort to get the desired result.

Now we all know that after this court pleading and after Wye River, ALPA National did eventually present the arbitrated award to the company and the company accepted the award as presented. The company agreed that the arbitrated list met the requirements laid out in the TA that was signed by the legal representatives of both pilot groups and the company. No doubt Freund's statements would have been modified had they been made after the list's presentation and acceptance by the company.

This is what your MEC was trying to tell you at the time of the USAPA vote; that it was by working within ALPA that the east had it's best chance of modifying the arbitrated list...while it is a bargaining position and prior to presentation to and acceptance by the company.
So, YOUR lawyer argues that there is no need to vacate the award since it is "nonbinding" and only a "negotiating position", and you guys argue that it is "binding" and "final". Sorry, even your own lawyer disagrees with you on those points.

ALPA is gone from the property, so is their so called "merger policy" AND their support to implement the award. The NIC IS NEGOTIABLE, whether you like it or not.

Get over it.
 
Would that be the malicious law suit that USAPA filed against 24 innocent west pilots?

Have you asked Bradford what that little ill-advised stunt cost?

24 innocent west pilots my behind. Who cares what it cost pal? Just watch you guys on U-tube or the most recent meeting with Parker. I actually laughed on the last one with the "we hate you guys" comment. I rode J/S on NW and UAL the other day. I asked them if they were refusing any of the East guys. Guess what, NW said they would refuse a Westie before any East guy and the UA guy said we have other things to worry about. Keep pounding your drums. All of you Westies are allowed on my J/S anytime, I can handle the stress. :up:
 
The NIC IS NEGOTIABLE, whether you like it or not.

Get over it.
I am not so certain there is a need to negotiate "the nic". Why even incorporate into any paperwork, thereby, acknowledge, such a flawed piece of paper.
 
It would look like once again, Freund simply went for the weakest link of the lawsuit at that point in time; that the arbitrated list was ALPA's bargaining positon that had not yet been presented to the company. Since it had not yet been presented to the company, it was like any other bargaining position and something that the company is not required to accept.

Now we all know that after this court pleading and after Wye River, ALPA National did eventually present the arbitrated award to the company and the company accepted the award as presented. The company agreed that the arbitrated list met the requirements laid out in the TA that was signed by the legal representatives of both pilot groups and the company. No doubt Freund's statements would have been modified had they been made after the list's presentation and acceptance by the company.

The list being presented to the company does not, in any way, change it from being a "bargaining position." The list will remain a "bargaining position" until ratified by both pilot groups. Negotiations 101 electricjet. Further, there are many steps from presenting a position by one party to the other and the final approval of membership ratification.

This is what your MEC was trying to tell you at the time of the USAPA vote; that it was by working within ALPA that the east had it's best chance of modifying the arbitrated list...while it is a bargaining position and prior to presentation to and acceptance by the company.

The east MEC felt it was best to remain within ALPA and also claimed the Nicolau list would never see the light of day. Obviously, the overwhelming majority of US Airways pilots didn't buy it.

Electricjet, you're clearly grasping at anything here - learn a little about labor negotiations and you will quickly see that whether or not the list was presented to the company or not does nothing to change its status of "bargaining position."

I would also suggest reading some of the recent U-turn letters; they are accurate and will provide you with balanced information so as to arrive at your own conclusion of where this process will end up.
 
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