US Pilot Labor Thread 9/7-14

[ussnark]

Prior to merger consumation east and west were well aware that chapter 7 was in east's future.

A few east bed-wetters were, indeed, running around telling everyone who they could trap into listening, that, but, for the most part that is news to many of the east pilots. Looks like they trapped you. sigh.

 

[EastUS]

AN INFORMATIONAL MEETING IS SCHEDULED IN PHX FOR SEPTEMBER 12th AT THE CROWN PLAZA HOTEL LOCATED AT 4300 EAST WASHINGTON STREET FROM 12PM TO 4PM. GUEST SPEAKERS WILL BE OUR LEGAL COUNSEL FROM THE LAWFIRM OF SHUGHART, THOMPSON & KILROY P.C.

prechilill: "Like a bunch of little squirrels talking about the nuts they are going to find on a nut hunt-"

The last time I ever attended any "informational meeting" of that sort..someone was trying to sell me a time share at Tahoe. I've scrupulously avoided them ever since. Are pom poms and full cheerleeder attire required to attend?..or does one just have to listen to a lawyer's lengthy sales pitch for batch lots of more money? :blink:

 

[nic4us]

Actually, you do not have your facts straight.

Any DOH/LOS must have conditions and restrictions. ALPA told your committee that, more than once. If you were not paying attention, that is your problem.

and, all I was saying that it was in the west's interest to hold at a "relative seniority" fable, with no compromise. You could do no worse than what you had.

BTW, what "compromise" did the west offer?

ussnark,

perhaps the west could do no worse, but they could have seeked to do much better. after being called back by george nic and asked if they had changed their position the east said no. he then asked the west if they had changed their position and Freund said basically we should possibly just seek a staple because east was being so unreasonable that in order to get close to what we wanted west may have to harden its stance in case he decided to just split it down the middle. so your assumption is incorrect. the west had a good argument for a simple staple of the east as their career expectation at the time was the street, however at no time did they seek that, I believe because we knew it was not fair or workable. why do you not se that a DOH staple of the west is just as unworkable.

eastus,

my appologies, I reread the thread and found that it was indeed not you but westpuslot who keeps likening pilots to heavy equiptment "bulldozer" operators. by the way did I mention his name is an anagram for "we stop lust"

Also, there has been some attempts at light humor around your often adressing posters as "sir". I mentioned the number of east pilots I have carried on the jumpseat and think I have put 2 and 2 together, you actually talk that way. Did you ride on the jumpseat PHL-SAN, and are you that Russian defector?

westpuslot,

see above

 

[EastUS]

Also, there has been some attempts at light humor around your often adressing posters as "sir". I mentioned the number of east pilots I have carried on the jumpseat and think I have put 2 and 2 together, you actually talk that way. Did you ride on the jumpseat PHL-SAN, and are you that Russian defector?

"you actually talk that way." = Often guilty as charged there 😉 but, I'm afraid that I've yet not had the pleasure of meeting you sir, and haven't been aboard any west aircraft's jumpseat as of yet. Once again..I do thank you most kindly for obviously treating those fellows that have ridden with you well, and it'll always be my pleasure to offer any west pilot a ride. Regardless of whatever our group issues are, or however much any get "fired up" over things; there's just no possible point in treating one another unprofessionally, or at all disrespectfully in the working enviornment/real world. Such nonsense merely diminishes us as supposed professionals, and as people as well.

We've all got far more in common than we have as differences. It's extremely unfortunate that we find ourselves so bitterly opposed, and hugely divided on but one issue. Such is life I suppose...

 

[Megasnoop]

When did I ever say four months? I stated the first year. You guys are so good at making up facts.

4 months came from merger announced to the Pittsburg meeting when you said you quit over Macalvena. We appointed our MC after the merger announcement. Sorry for a wrong assumption. Did I miss something?

When our MC's first met, just after the "merger" was actually signed your MC started talking DOH because our side now could not jeapordize the "merger" Our side did not discuss DOH because they were so surprised your side would mention it after agreeing not to. The west was silent because they needed to regroup.

Fools shooting their mouths off. Writing checks that could (and did) bounce. They were ALPO Old Gaurd. What can I say?

Your MC, however, returned to the east and produced a memo proclaiming discussions of DOH were ongoing and progress was made. When we saw that one we couldn't f....... believe it. They were disingenuous with us and outright lied to their own people. You guys are clones of each other.

As I said I was non-ALPO back then, but I read our MCs garbage 2nd hand. We had a group called pilotsforafaircontract that tracked our MEC for non-members. I cant argue with you on our MC, Tazz. Only fools and losers negotiate in public and put out bull to keep the hype. snooper

 

[Low&away]

What a load of crap! Please explain just what protections and stability/advancement the west would have had if DOH had been implemented. The west had everything to lose and status quo to gain. Playing by the rules doesn't make the west self rightous victims it just makes us professionals who played by the rules. Yours was truly one of the dumbest posts I've seen yet.

What load of crap? The West absolutely had nothing to loose. The only thing you lost was a nostalgic self serving projection of your future, based on a selectable snapshot in a time, far far away. Where do you come off demanding stability and career advancement. Those are things we hope for. They are not entitlements. Are you reading the news ? Midwest Express pilots had a bright future, a great company, great employee's and loyal customers. The only tangible career asset Airline pilots have, is who they work for and when they were hired. Most everything else as you say, is just a load of crap!!

 

[BoeingBoy]

The only thing you lost was a nostalgic self serving projection of your future, based on a selectable snapshot in a time, far far away.

Which, of course, some East posters use to justify the "Give us what we want now and sometime in the future the world will be yours."

Amazing how some from the East can play the expectations game when it suits (right after the Nic came out and still for some) only to have others from the East proclaim "Where do you come off..." when anyone from the West mentions expectations.

Jim

 

[Tiger 1050]

The only thing you lost was a nostalgic self serving projection of your future, based on a selectable snapshot in a time, far far away.

Right back at you friend. Tell me, with Chapter 7 looming on the horizon, what exactly was your "selectable snapshot?" I can only imagine that it must have been "far, far away."

Keep talking though...

 

[Res Judicata]

Pie-in-the-sky, Yes. But should act as cover and a trigger to change the ALPA C&BL policy for merger and fragmentation to straight DOH.

The BOD meeting is imminent and when it's done there will be no National Seniority List - but I bet the merger and fragmentation policy will be greatly simplified. Just a little too late. :down:

This Resolution doesn't say a damn thing about DOH. Why are the East guys so incapable of understanding FACTS? Why do you guys always assume the rest of the world is to stupid to notice your B.S.?

 

[BoeingBoy]

I assume that DOH is being read into "...that enables and enforces the individual members’ ability to transfer their seniority, longevity, and operational experience...

It's too bad that 767jetz hasn't dropped by to explain this UA MEC resolution. A strict interpretation would be that both seniority and longevity are included because the intent isn't to equate one to the other - otherwise why include both.

Together with the "benchmarks" mentioned elsewhere in the resolution, it sounds like any national list would be broken down into seat and airplane groupings - if you're senior enough on your list to hold 737 or equivalent capt you go onto that part of the national list (the seniority part). If you're not that senior on your list but have a certain number of years longevity (15, 20, or whatever), you'd also go on that portion of the national list (the longevity part).

Jim

 

[Tiger 1050]

Just one more reason to get out of this biz if you ask me... This will be a HUGE mess. Look at the battle we have going here! Put this on a national level and you will have nuclear meltdown guaranteed!

 

[westcoastflyer]

USAPA now has more than 625 West- based pilot members, with more joining every day now. Perhaps a first step in trying to get all US Airways pilots moving toward the same direction?

 

[tazz]

Where do you come off demanding stability and career advancement. Those are things we hope for. They are not entitlements.

Please show me where I ever demanded anything, especially stability and advancement. As I have previously pointed out, you guys are amazing when it comes to making things up!

 

[tazz]

QUOTE (EastUS @ Sep 10 2008, 08:47 AM)
So..absent all the self-righteous BS (if even at all possible) ..What actually was your "best offer"?



Whereas you clearly don't owe any truth as regards any actual west proposal then?..Was the best west effort at any compromise at all, truly so lopsided that you feel that you can't even put it up in public for reasons of how absurdly selfish it really was? OK then.... I guess we're done here with that particular BS. I suppose we'll all have to leave it with your inherent nobility in not "demanding" stapling...and simply make estimations of just how "reasonable" your bunch truly was from that awesomely demonstrated generosity of spirit. 😉

Reread some of my other previous posts, genius. Remember that I said that LOS was not an original east idea? Prior to arbitration, of course.

 

[tazz]

A few east bed-wetters were, indeed, running around telling everyone who they could trap into listening, that, but, for the most part that is news to many of the east pilots. Looks like they trapped you. sigh.

I guess you don't pay much attention to the world around you. Situational awareness in the mapcase.