US Pilot Labor Thread 9/7-14

[EastUS]

Reread some of my other previous posts, genius. Remember that I said that LOS was not an original east idea? Prior to arbitration, of course.

I've no time for your snide quiblling, evasive BS, and wholesale tap dancing "genius". Either answer TF question or get lost with your utter BS. What WAS the west's best offer at any compromise? If you're insufficiently honest and forthright to simply state what that actually was.....well...I guess that I shouldn't be surprised in the slightest, given your immersive alpa background and all...much less the fact that your best offer at any compromise was almost certainly an entirely selfish "joke", that you're just too embarrassed by to even trot out here. 😉

 

[EastUS]

I assume that DOH is being read into "...that enables and enforces the individual members’ ability to transfer their seniority, longevity, and operational experience...

It's too bad that 767jetz hasn't dropped by to explain this UA MEC resolution.

What's to explain? It's but yet more alpa babbling to no actually useful end or purpose, and is pretty clearly just another politics-as-usual smokescreen. Why do you even think that alpa's now even "harrumphing" about the idea of a national seniroity list of any kind?...It surely can't be because of the unbelievable mess they made here, and the many millions they're losing becasue of it?. Perhaps even the UAL folks have finally figured out that the "merger policy" means nothing more than guaranteed, whimsical arbitration 😉 FYI: DOH as an essential principle doesn't require any "explaining". Virtually every trade union to ever exist already "gets it" therein. Some people simply disregard any/all principles for their own selfish purposes. Speaking of which: How did that "I want special seniority for myself" due to your Piedmont status work out for you?..Still a bit twisted around the axle over that? 🙄

 

[EastUS]

Right back at you friend. Tell me, with Chapter 7 looming on the horizon, what exactly was your "selectable snapshot?" I can only imagine that it must have been "far, far away."

Keep talking though...

Whereas the highest levels of management have repeatedly tried to explain to the west crowd that, absent this marvelous, just-too-much-fun-to-be-true merger..that AWA would be extinct as well. What's your possible point here?...or..are we all still riding around in some AWA-Uber-Alles Fantasyland ride out west? All that's proven here is just how utterly ridiculous any "snapshot" truly is when considering seniority....or anything at all for that matter.

 

[767jetz]

It's too bad that 767jetz hasn't dropped by to explain this UA MEC resolution.

Together with the "benchmarks" mentioned elsewhere in the resolution, it sounds like any national list would be broken down into seat and airplane groupings - if you're senior enough on your list to hold 737 or equivalent capt you go onto that part of the national list (the seniority part). If you're not that senior on your list but have a certain number of years longevity (15, 20, or whatever), you'd also go on that portion of the national list (the longevity part).

Jim

Sorry that I have nothing to report on that subject. I have not had an opportunity to talk to anyone wrt the resolution.

My assumption is that you are not far off. I believe the national list they are talking about has to do with what seat or fleet you are on at your current job. That way you can take that job to another airline in a merger situation. Sounds a lot like relative seniority to me with adjustments for longevity.

But that is just a guess. If I find out more information I'll be sure to pass it along.

 

[BoeingBoy]

FYI: DOH as an essential principle doesn't require any "explaining". Virtually every trade union to ever exist already "gets it" therein. Some people simply disregard any/all principles for their own selfish purposes. Speaking of which: How did that "I want special seniority for myself" due to your Piedmont status work out for you?..Still a bit twisted around the axle over that? 🙄

It's probably not worth the time to even respond 😛 other than to say it's business as usual - the all knowing EastUS has spoken and the narrow "My way or the highway" litany is still the same....

Jim

 

[Res Judicata]

USAPA now has more than 625 West- based pilot members, with more joining every day now. Perhaps a first step in trying to get all US Airways pilots moving toward the same direction?

That was merely to give USAPA the opportunity to violate it's own CB&Ls, which of course they did famously. More Fodder. Watch the Mass resignations. How many have paid?30?

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Whereas the highest levels of management have repeatedly tried to explain to the west crowd that, absent this marvelous, just-too-much-fun-to-be-true merger..that AWA would be extinct as well. What's your possible point here?...or..are we all still riding around in some AWA-Uber-Alles Fantasyland ride out west? All that's proven here is just how utterly ridiculous any "snapshot" truly is when considering seniority....or anything at all for that matter.

Why don't you re read the joint statement of labor principles, from Lakefield and Parker. I recall some stuff in there about, to paraphrase, some sort of proportional integration being appropriate. That was right after they referred to the effective staple which doh would have caused.

There was nothing in there about date of hire with "protections."

 

[ussnark]

I guess you don't pay much attention to the world around you. Situational awareness in the mapcase.

I guess that is all you have, nothing.

and, mapcase? How quaint.

 

[EastUS]

Why don't you re read the joint statement of labor principles, from Lakefield and Parker. I recall some stuff in there about, to paraphrase, some sort of proportional integration being appropriate. That was right after they referred to the effective staple which doh would have caused.

"There was nothing in there about date of hire with "protections." Neither of those parties had anything to do with the alpa made mess here, and imho, were merely speaking to placate the workers in general....ALL of whom integrated by DOH, and seem to be getting along decently, save for "some" of course. Protections and fences were and are still being offered..and the west response was/is what? = "All Out Warfare" 🙄

So..If I've got the general west tone at all right..What management said about seniority's valid (as if they actually care in the least how things were/are worked out) but what they've said about the high probability of AWA, as an independant operation becoming extinct's not at all reasonable to accept? So much for "snapshots" I'd say.

 

[ussnark]

Why don't you re read the joint statement of labor principles, from Lakefield and Parker. I recall some stuff in there about, to paraphrase, some sort of proportional integration being appropriate. That was right after they referred to the effective staple which doh would have caused.

Or the actual staple, had AWA gotten their way. (Thanks, tazz)

I would think it would be rather dangerous, and uncharacteristic, for CEO types to opine how union led integrations would occur. They can speak all they want about non-union integrations, but, I would think that a public statement about the process, inevitably favoring one side or another, would be taboo.

Perhaps you recall, wrong?

 

[EastUS]

That was merely to give USAPA the opportunity to violate it's own CB&Ls, which of course they did famously. More Fodder. Watch the Mass resignations. How many have paid?30?

Speaking of fodder...How would you know or even presume that only 30 have paid?...unless an orchestrated west campaign of sabotage is afoot here. Who'd have ever thought such a thing? Keep 'em coming

"Watch the Mass resignations" I'm sure that all such will be of interest, especially since you strongly imply that such are already planned herein....

 

[Tiger 1050]

Whereas the highest levels of management have repeatedly tried to explain to the west crowd that, absent this marvelous, just-too-much-fun-to-be-true merger..that AWA would be extinct as well. What's your possible point here?...or..are we all still riding around in some AWA-Uber-Alles Fantasyland ride out west? All that's proven here is just how utterly ridiculous any "snapshot" truly is when considering seniority....or anything at all for that matter.

I suppose it really does not matter one way or the other which entity was more financially sound. You could easily show both airlines were having difficulty, but I would argue you were standing in your grave while I was standing at the edge of mine. However that's not what this discussion is about. It's about how one should honor the agreements one enters into. This lawsuit is to force the east into accepting the outcome of arbitration that both sides agreed would be final and binding. And please do not patronize me with your "It didn't follow ALPA merger policy!" or the "I didn't get to vote!" None of those requirements existed at the arbitration phase prior to your agreement to enter into this covenant. So tell me how could one argue after the fact...? Don't tell me. That was rhetorical...

While it may be entertaining to banter back and forth, we should realize that the plan has been set in motion and there is nothing you can say or do to stop it. The courts will hear our argument and your rebuttal. A decision will rendered and that will be that.

So how's life in you neck of the woods? Yes, I am being sincere!

 

[Tiger 1050]

...unless an orchestrated west campaign of sabotage is afoot here. Who'd have ever thought such a thing? Keep 'em coming

"Watch the Mass resignations" I'm sure that all such will be of interest, especially since you strongly imply that such are already planned herein....

Yeah! And maybe Seham can convince you guys to finance another ill-fated suit against the west!!! Purely awesome...

You can vote on it at your next BPR meeting!

...Whereas the west pilots have found out USAPA and officers intend place unfair conditions and restriction on the west pilot's...

...Whereas the west pilots have therefore resigned in protest...

...Therefore be it resolved that USAPA bring a suit to punish the west for not playing along...

Yeah that about sounds right I think. 😉

 

[Res Judicata]

Speaking of fodder...How would you know or even presume that only 30 have paid?...unless an orchestrated west campaign of sabotage is afoot here. Who'd have ever thought such a thing? Keep 'em coming

"Watch the Mass resignations" I'm sure that all such will be of interest, especially since you strongly imply that such are already planned herein....

Alert Seeham!!!!!! Your narcissism has been offended!!!!!! The streets shall run red with the blood of the West!!!

 

[EastUS]

While it may be entertaining to banter back and forth, we should realize that the plan has been set in motion and there is nothing you can say or do to stop it. The courts will hear our argument and your rebuttal. A decision will rendered and that will be that.

It was an inevitable step for the west to take, and yeah = we'll all just have to see how things play out over time. Whatta' a continuing mess for all concerned. Ah well/etc.

"So how's life in you neck of the woods? Yes, I am being sincere!" I can't complain out in this part of the literally woods myself. I hope the knee's coming along well...Patience, patience, etc...The first stage healing limitations can drive a fella' nuts for a few weeks at least, but DO pass