US Pilot Labor Thread 9/7-14

[tazz]

The west has never tried to compromise. It was never in their best interests to compromise. The west policy has been to "go for the gold", knowing full well that the worst that could happen would be be no worse than what they had pre-merger.

Shameful.

What is shameful is that you don't have your facts straight. As a former member of the west Merger Committee I know that the west negotiated in good faith. The east jumped on the DOH mantra two weeks after the "merger" was consumated and NEVER backed off. Any compromise offered by the east was subsequent to tha arbitrator's decision. Well after the appropriate time for negotiation.

 

[fodase]

Folks,

Just got an e-mail that is from the UAL MEC. They are going to ALPA national with a resolution that would change ALPA merger policy to DOH and start a National Senority list as soon as 2009 and would include any airline no matter if they are union or not. Interesting in light of the current situation here at US Airways.

Semper Fi

Where does it say Date of Hire? ah yes it doesn't, but leave it to an eastie to make it look like it does.

 

[autofixer]

Where does it say Date of Hire? ah yes it doesn't, but leave it to an eastie to make it look like it does.

Leave it to a westie not to understand seniority is from date of hire.

 

[EastUS]

What a load of crap! Please explain just what protections and stability/advancement the west would have had if DOH had been implemented. The west had everything to lose and status quo to gain. Playing by the rules doesn't make the west self rightous victims it just makes us professionals who played by the rules. Yours was truly one of the dumbest posts I've seen yet.

That evidently hit a nerve... A bit too close to home here?

QUOTE (fatherabraham @ Sep 9 2008, 06:26 PM)
Bottom line from East perspective:

...Then play the self rightous victom of "only playing by rules". The ALPA system provided the west with a "no lose" process and now the greed of the west claims a loss of potential gain.

In my eyes and folk i know, the East wanted nothing of West but not so in your case. That fact is non-disputable." = Agreed here as well.

tazz:"What is shameful is that you don't have your facts straight. As a former member of the west Merger Committee I know that the west negotiated in good faith." Really?..Kindly cite even one example in support of that notion sir....?? As a self declared insider of sorts; Perhaps you've some legitmate reasons for believing that. What are they? What were any negotiable positions that might have found acceptance within your ranks? What was the problem with the Wye River proposals? = Not enough for you? given all that "good faith" that you claim was present; What actually would have worked for you?

 

[Tiger 1050]

All,
For the easties who think I am in a "no lose" situation I offer you my reality. Furlough! That is what I am going to get. It's not maybe or probably! It's just a matter of time now. Do I blame east pilots? No. But I do blame this merger. Why? Because as I tried to point out in 2 DIFFERENT POSTS (that's for you Ussnark) the economics of "west" operations changed. The very minute this merger happened AWA took on additional cost through the east's cost structure. Now the west's leisure markets are no longer performing as well. It's simple math folks! And it really doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure it out! I think you simply choose to ignore it! There can never be two separate ops ever. So we can no longer entertain this notion of "you keep yours, I'll keep mine." This concept especially rings true due to the fact that USAPA has done NOTHING to uphold the TA demanding that the third list be flushed first. So here you have Parker who essentially has free reign to furlough in the more expensive/poorest performing areas of his operation. Thanks USAPA!!!

You speak of I get to keep mine! Well gee thanks pal. You F-ing trashed what I had!! What I had no longer exists! So don't sit there on your high horse and tell me I could have what was once mine...

 

[EastUS]

Folks,

I will try to add the resolution on this page hope it works.

Sent: 9/7/2008 3:08:33 P.M. Eastern Daylight Time
Subj: National Seniority Protocol / Proposed Resolution UAL MEC
AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL102ND REGULAR EXECUTIVE BOARD MEETINGSeptember 9-10, 2008


SUBJECT
National Seniority Protocol

BE IT FURTHER RESOLVED that upon adoption as ALPA policy by the proper authorizing internal ALPA mechanisms, the national seniority protocol will be enforced as of that date and no ALPA Collective Bargaining Agreement will be signed by the President of the Association without full inclusion of this policy as a part thereof.

Sounds like little more than another batch lot of alpoid harrumphing to me, but it's clearly at least an admission of just how hopelessly scrooched up their "processes" are in the wake of the nic fiasco here. Methinks they're trying to cover themsselves against wholesale defections from airlines/cash cows still with them. Others have now seen that they can be tossed out.....

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Well, at least its entertaining to see EB's boys turn on him.

 

[fatherabraham]

Tazz,
Thx for your critique on my post. Note I underlined an East perspective. Not enuf time or desire to exchange words with you. West merger com. huh. Nuff said!
FA

 

[Eastisleast]

Tazz,
Thx for your critique on my post. Note I underlined an East perspective. Not enuf time or desire to exchange words with you. West merger com. huh. Nuff said!
FA

I will second your post was full of crap. The west pilots had everything to loose, a lifetime in the right seat just because of a merger. Your "east" perspective of having something to loose is because you set yourselves up for the unattainable DOH.

Tazz thanks for all your hard work on the merger com, it must have been a nightmare to watch the DOH dance day after day. I bet they told exciting stories about flying across the north atlantic and maybe someday we could fly BIG jets!!! Somebody please tell me this is just a bad dream :rant:

 

[Megasnoop]

Folks,

Just got an e-mail that is from the UAL MEC. They are going to ALPA national with a resolution that would change ALPA merger policy to DOH and start a National Senority list as soon as 2009 and would include any airline no matter if they are union or not. Interesting in light of the current situation here at US Airways.

Semper Fi

Sorry to rain on your parade, especially as a newbie, but this is pure ALPO pie-in-the-sky. Take a look at last week's thread where it was discussed. No way a union is going to tell a company who to hire. Also no way ALPO is going to dictate a national list to APA, IPA, SWAPA, NPA, IBT or any other union or non-union pilot group. snooper

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Sorry to rain on your parade, especially as a newbie, but this is pure ALPO pie-in-the-sky. Take a look at last week's thread where it was discussed. No way a union is going to tell a company who to hire. Also no way ALPO is going to dictate a national list to APA, IPA, SWAPA, NPA, IBT or any other union or non-union pilot group. snooper

Interesting, coming from one of those who tried to dictate the jumpseat to everyone else. It looks a little like the pie in the sky a little closer to home.

They just want a nsl in place should they wind up tango uniform. In any event, you are right, its pie in the sky.

 

[Megasnoop]

I will second your post was full of crap. The west pilots had everything to loose, a lifetime in the right seat just because of a merger.

"Lifetime in the right seat?" Least, where you get that? Our median age at the time of the merger was 54. Our most junior active pilot was 42. Your median age was 41. You inherit 90% of the CA seats in 8 years. Youll have almost all of them in 10. We retired 480 pilots between merger and age 60 change. you retired 40? And in case you forgot, without this merger neither airline would still be in business. Thats not USAPA or east propaganda. Thats from our ceo, dougweiser.

But then, for you west whiners, even 1 day in the right seat seems like a lifetime, doesnt it?

Tazz thanks for all your hard work on the merger com, it must have been a nightmare to watch the DOH dance day after day.

Hard work on the Merger Committee? According to Tazz, he spent only 4 months on the committtee, quitting because of their looney Macalvena.

Somebody please tell me this is just a bad dream

Best of luck with your DFR. Bet you have the left seats via DOH before your DFR is ever resolved. Ask your TWAflyer guy. That DFR is 7 years old with no end in sight. Just throwing more money down a rat hole, but its your money, defended by your own dues money. snooper

 

[Eastisleast]

ok, lifetime may be a bit dramatic, but still way more years than any of us had planned or on the track to. With your famous conditions and restrictions, fences...it would be a really long time. Since you broke down the age thing so perfectly why the need for lifetime fences some of you group love to talk about so much? I would be a lifetime f/o if we are fenced forever....we all know that phx will have very little growth. And on a personal note, including everyone I talk to, I would rather get a root canal than commute to your bases! Why mention my note to tazz...all union people deserve a pat on the back...especially dealing with the all knowing east group. Thanks for your support of our DFR, it will be a victory for all of us, it will be the point we can heal from and begin to move on.

 

[EastUS]

ok, lifetime may be a bit dramatic, but still way more years than any of us had planned or on the track to.

And Folks..Yet once again; Here we have the truest essentials of the "Righteous Position" out west = "I want it ALL..NOW!!" The rest ("INTEGRITY MATTERS!"/etc) is naught but all fluff and attempted camoflage for that established reality.

Eastisleast: "I would be a lifetime f/o if we are fenced forever...." ...and being that you're no doubt, a wholly deserving, extremely unique, and very, very special person indeed..It's far, far better if someone out east who's been stuck in a right seat for, say....20 years or so, while working and sacrificing to keep this operation alive....simply steps aside for your personal ambition?..Just too absurd for words....

FYI: Life is what happens while you're making other plans, and the vast sense of personal entitlement shown here's nothing short of unbelievable...had all present not already been hearing endless variations on that very same theme for over a year now....Words just don't adequately serve here :blink:

Rotsa' Ruck with the endless litigation. 🙄

 

[traderjake]

No, a west pilot shouldn't lose his job. East pilots should not get west jobs. That is what fences are for.

If this is true put fences around the Nic Award and the problem is solved, right?.