US Pilot Labor Thread

[700UW]

You know what, you wont seek the truth, your information is off base.

I was there, were you?

Read my post again, there were several reasons why US filed.

We lived it, you didnt.

 

[ableoneable]

You know what, you wont seek the truth, your information is off base.

I was there, were you?

Please explain how my information is off base.

Absent America West there was very little financing. That is to say there was no stand alone plan. The fact that USAir had could not cover their payroll in the final months of bankruptcy should clearly illustrate this fact.

Had AAA management really intended to operate as a stand alone operation it would have required a vastly smaller carrier and probably pay rates well below LOA93.

 

[Phoenix]

If you keep typing the samething, it does not make it true.

US approached HP, not vice versa, US arranged all the financing, not HP.

Seabury was involved on both Chapter 11 cases and worked for US not HP.

The main reason US filed the second time is that no employee group wanted to give concessions for a third time and they wanted to get out of paying the IAM $15 million for the airbus arbitration, and they wanted the rest of the pensions.

I was there and lived, were you?

Oh come on 700.. HP saved US.. and every labor group at US should have offered to be stapled in a show of gratitude.

 

[ableoneable]

You know what, you wont seek the truth, your information is off base.

I was there, were you?

Read my post again, there were several reasons why US filed.

We lived it, you didnt.

I don't dispute that there were several reasons behind filing for bankruptcy protection.

The difference is which chapter should they use.

There was little or no chance for a second reorganization as a stand alone carrier.

It is apparent that the goal of the second chapter 11 filing was to set up AAA for a sale to a predetermined party.

Had this not been the case managment would have either filed under chapter 7 or they would have submitted a vastly different plan that dramatically shrank USAir.

At the end of the day it really does not matter. I am willing to let it go but someone on the east side keeps bringing it up over and over.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I don't know why this keeps being rehashed, but there's one irrefutable fact - if Parker had said "No thanks" to the merger US would have liquidated. Heck, they were burning the furniture and were about out of furniture.

Everything else - Seabury, getting the outside investments, etc - is just the mechanics of getting from Parker's "OK - let's merge" to the actual merger/BK exit. Theories about US being wildly profitable or dragging Parker kicking and screaming into the merger won't change that basic fact.

So if for no other reason, HP "saved" US.

Jim

 

[ussnark]

What I find to be most interesting is that even by DOH this furlough is being conducted out of seniority and USAPA is failing to make any objections. AWA pilots with 4 years of service are being furloughed ahead of new hires and CEL pilots out East.

The west has pilots with four years service being furloughed? Really?

New hires out east, with seven years seniority being furloughed before four year west pilots? Travesty, indeed.

You need to get your numbers straight.

 

[ussnark]

Please don't make us go through this again.

You are wrong, I just don't want to go through it all over a fourth time.

You never went through it the first time, being shot down quite handily, I might add.

You never did read the SEC filings, did you.

 

[ussnark]

Yeah, genius, and those same pawns are now runnig the show.

I am not so certain any reasonably intelligent person would want to claim to be "runnig (sic) this show".

 

[700UW]

US had a stand alone plan, I saw it, it involved GECAS and a massive downsizing, but it was a plan, the better option was a merger.

 

[oldiebutgoody]

Again, for the umpteenth time, just why do you think that Parker had ANY interest in U at the time? Maybe TO SAVE HIS OWN COMPANY, just like he said? I guess that's just too easy to believe for some folks. The bottom line is, BOTH COMPANIES NEEDED EACH OTHER. There is no doubt in my mind, and according to Doug, his either, that BOTH COMPANIES WOULD BE GONE TODAY IF THE MERGER HAD NOT HAPPENED.

Both saved each other. PERIOD. Put any spin on it you want, but that's the real answer.

BOTH compnies had to figure into this, and neither is more deserving of credit than the other.

 

[ussnark]

The reason Seabury group was even involved was because of AWA's expressed interest.

If you wish to convince someone, it is preferred that you use facts and not fantasy. AWA contributed nothing to the merger, read the SEC filings. One investor wanted to dump his interests in AWA. That is all.

 

[ableoneable]

US had a stand alone plan, I saw it, it involved GECAS and a massive downsizing, but it was a plan, the better option was a merger.

A plan with no financing is not a plan it is a prayer.

Absent America West there was no-one willing to pony up operating cash.

 

[700UW]

Can you not comprehend what you read?

US had financing arranged from GECAS, Air Wisky and Republic in the stand alone plan and the RSA was going to participate once again.

You can try to spin it anyway you want, but I was involved in negotiations and privy to confidential information, were you?

 

[ableoneable]

Can you not comprehend what you read?

US had financing arranged from GECAS, Air Wisky and Republic in the stand alone plan and the RSA was going to participate once again.

You can try to spin it anyway you want, but I was involved in negotiations and privy to confidential information, were you?

Everything I read in the Seabury report indicates that those funds were contingent on America West's participation.

If America West had not made USAir's payroll in the last month who do you think would have?

 

[ussnark]

Seabury came on board this last time only after AWA management expressed an interest in USAir.

Why do you keep evading SEC filings that tell the real story? AWA contributed nothing positive to the merger. In fact, they have yet to contribute anything except FUD, failed projects and authoritarian nightmares, taking monies to pay off their own loans and lining their own pockets.