US Pilot Labor Thread

[Tiger 1050]

Feel free..as it's a quote from one of your own. I'm very sorry that you, or anyone else is set for furlough, for what little that thought's worth to you from me.

I suppose I was upset by the comments tazz made, considering my personal situation. I meant to inject some idea that both sides of this battle will take any ammo and happily sling it back the other way with nothing more than ill will served plenty cold. Unfortunately tazz turned out to be a fellow west pilot with a convincing, but nonetheless, sarcastic statement. I was simply confused...

Tazz: Sorry I misunderstood the intent of your post. No hard feelings man...

EastUS: As far as what it's worth to me... Well to be honest, I do believe you are being genuine. And for that... Thank you.

P.S. if my posts have come across as incoherent I apologize. I just had knee surgery and I am still on pain meds...

 

[ableoneable]

Nope. Wrong again. Jim was spinning what I said into something it wasn't. Just as you like to do.

Oh, and please don't pay your fair share. Let's see where that gets you.

Now, why don't you start working on your next career, instead of trying to attack folks on this forum.

Oh, that's right. You don't have to study too hard to learn how to work the paper hats and fry machine.

So quoting without commenting is spinning?

The universe you live in must be as unique as your "situation."

Your own words assassinate your character.

 

[nostradamus]

We have been through this at least three times.

The reason Seabury group was even involved was because of AWA's expressed interest.

Seabury became involved at the behest of AWA management. No-one else was interested and had Parker not been USAir would have liquidated. As it was AWA made USAir's payroll to keep it a viable enterprise until the merger could move forward.

Would AWA have been in trouble in the months following? Absolutely, but AWA still had chapter 11 options available and other merger partners that could have come to the dance. USAir had no other options.

In either case it does not matter. None of the above has any bearing on where we are today or where we will go tomorrow.

"Seabury Group Begins Soliciting Merger Partner As “Hedge”
to Standalone Plan." Early February



Do not misinform the public and you will not need to be corrected three times or more.

ableoneable opinions, nostradamus facts, click here

 

[oldiebutgoody]

So quoting without commenting is spinning?

The universe you live in must be as unique as your "situation."

Your own words assassinate your character.

He quoted in the context of people "drooling" over west furloughs. Nothing could be farther from the truth. My personal opinion is that the furloughs are a terrible thing for BOTH sides. The company, if they had ANY moral character, would do EVERYTHING they could to prevent even one single furlough of the people that serve it everyday.

(Deleted by Moderator. Personal attacks/namecalling are not permitted.)
If someone has to be furloughed, I prefer it be of THAT variety, be they East or West, especially considering the amount of sympathy some of the earlier furloughees got from folks like you and your ilk.

Now, I'm ignoring anything else that you post, since it is not beyond you to post things of which you know nothing.

Go back to using your fertile imagination. Try to imagine just how all of those posts of mine can be true. Maybe I'm a spy. Maybe an evil scientist. Go ahead, keep thinking.

Don't bother getting back to me, I won't be paying you any attention.

 

[Edward]

This thread is going the wrong way fast. To everyone a warning personal attacks are NOT permitted and you are subject to time off. Thank you.

 

[nostradamus]

Thanks for the laugh
I need to send you a bill for a new keyboard after I spit my coffee out all over it.
Using a U Turn piece to prove any point is high comedy!
Those sure are objective guys without any agenda :huh:

Can you elaborate, spilling your coffee on your keyboard does not prove that u turns opinion is wrong. For instance please explain without spilling your "coffee" you are drinking, the following link. Please tell us which statements are wrong and why. The u turn group are america west pilots who have an opinion that differs from the majority.

Maybe other west pilots can let us know which statements are not of a factual nature. Please do not tell us that these are disgruntled people, we already know that. Tell us why america west pilot leaders are not partly responsible for the furloughs they are experiencing.

U turn speaks out on the US Airways (west) furloughs.

Also your small group of america west pilots have three organizations, U turn, army of leonidas and awappa. Your pilot group seems to be fractured and out of money soon in my opinion.

 

[LSS]

P.S. if my posts have come across as incoherent I apologize. I just had knee surgery and I am still on pain meds...

Tiger...
I feel for you.. having been there done that myself in Feb this year. Mine was ortho surgery - torn cartlidge inner and outer knee... Doc said it would be a piece of cake... (he lied!) I personally had excruciating pain the day after surg for about 2 to 3 weeks only controlled by very strong mind-altering drugs 🙂... The first two months I was mad at myself for having it done... Now, 6 months later... guess I'm glad I did. If you're experiencing major pain... pester the doc for stronger meds! Hope you have a speedy recovery...

 

[700UW]

We have been through this at least three times.

The reason Seabury group was even involved was because of AWA's expressed interest.

Seabury became involved at the behest of AWA management. No-one else was interested and had Parker not been USAir would have liquidated. As it was AWA made USAir's payroll to keep it a viable enterprise until the merger could move forward.

Would AWA have been in trouble in the months following? Absolutely, but AWA still had chapter 11 options available and other merger partners that could have come to the dance. USAir had no other options.

In either case it does not matter. None of the above has any bearing on where we are today or where we will go tomorrow.

Wrong again, Seabury was an advisor in the first bankruptcy as well as the second, Seabury handled all the renegotiations with the leaseholders of the planes US leased and numerous other functions, they were on the company payroll way before any thoughts of a merger transpired, I was there at CCY, were you?

 

[Tiger 1050]

Tiger...
I feel for you.. having been there done that myself in Feb this year. Mine was ortho surgery - torn cartlidge inner and outer knee... Doc said it would be a piece of cake... (he lied!) I personally had excruciating pain the day after surg for about 2 to 3 weeks only controlled by very strong mind-altering drugs 🙂... The first two months I was mad at myself for having it done... Now, 6 months later... guess I'm glad I did. If you're experiencing major pain... pester the doc for stronger meds! Hope you have a speedy recovery...

Yeah that sucks man... I had cartilage torn to the bone on my kneecap and damage done to the medial femur. Mine was also a scope. But they had to do "micro-fracture" on the kneecap. It leaks marrow out and that becomes scar tissue which i guess is the next best thing to real cartilage... I'll be on a glucosamine (sp?) diet for the rest of my life. I tried this morning to cut my meds in half. Um... Yeah... That's not gonna work. So here i sit stoned...

 

[ableoneable]

"Seabury Group Begins Soliciting Merger Partner As “Hedgeâ€￾
to Standalone Plan." Early February



Do not misinform the public and you will not need to be corrected three times or more.

ableoneable opinions, nostradamus facts, click here

Seabury came on board this last time only after AWA management expressed an interest in USAir.

If you look at the timeline you will see that the first action item was the pay cuts under section 1113 followed by LOA93.

If you look at public comments at the time you will see that USAir's management goal was "a pilot pay package in line with the pilot costs at America West Airlines."

Was this because;

A. America West was competitive with USAir in 95% of USAir's markets and this cost parity was necessary for USAir to compete?

OR

B. Pilot cost parity was an early pre-condition set by Parker in October 2004?

You gave up your pensions, not because it was necessary for USAir to survive, but because Parker did not want to deal with that debt going forward. The merger was already the plan at the time LOA93 was negotiated.

The timeline in the Seabury report begins in September 2004.

I am sure you are right, this is a coincidence. The reason USAir management picked America West as the cost benchmark was because of all the markets in which they were directly competing was killing USAir. That makes the most sense.

The "standalone" plan was clearly not a plan at all as it had no real dollars in backing. This was merely the packaging necessary before the merger went public.

If you can read and understand the implications of the Seabury report this is self evident.

 

[700UW]

Able,

I was at CCY with the IAM negotiating, Seabury was involved before US even filed the second time.

Seabury also handled the negotiations with GECAS and other lessors.

I was there, I dealt with them.

I guess since you are not even a US employee nor negotiating, you know more than those of us that were there.

 

[ussnark]

Here ya go, EastUS.....



Jim

Drooling?

 

[ableoneable]

Able,

I was at CCY with the IAM negotiating, Seabury was involved before US even filed the second time.

As was AWA.

The failure of the first chapter 11 restructuring demonstrated that USAir was not viable as a stand alone operation.

If you believe that the second filing was not an effort to restructure USAir as an attractive acquisition target, you are deluded.

America West had already been identified as the interested party which is why the first goal in the second filing was a pilot cost package that matched America West's.

 

[700UW]

If you keep typing the samething, it does not make it true.

US approached HP, not vice versa, US arranged all the financing, not HP.

Seabury was involved on both Chapter 11 cases and worked for US not HP.

The main reason US filed the second time is that no employee group wanted to give concessions for a third time and they wanted to get out of paying the IAM $15 million for the airbus arbitration, and they wanted the rest of the pensions.

I was there and lived, were you?

 

[ableoneable]

If you keep typing the samething, it does not make it true.

US approached HP, not vice versa, US arranged all the financing, not HP.

Does it really matter whether Us called Hp and said "We need to sell ourselves to you." or HP called AAA and said, "We want you to sell yourselves to us."

With respect to the financing. It only became possible after it became public that HP would be acquiring AAA. Prior to that announcement very very few were willing to open their checkbook.

The main reason US- filed the second time is that no employee group wanted to give concessions for a third time and they wanted to get out of paying the IAM $15 million for the airbus arbitration, and they wanted the rest of the pensions.

I was there and lived, were you?

If you really believe that avoiding an arbitration and pay were the exclusive reasons to file for chapter 11 protection a second time than I doubt I can help you.

America West had been identified as management's escape hatch prior to the second filing. Management had very concrete goals for pilot cost going in and that was the primary driver.

At no time did your management believe that achieving AWA pilot costs would completely turn everything around. They were adamant on achieving those numbers because that was a condition for a sale.

Absent the acquisition there was no way for AAA to emerge from their second filing. They could not even make payroll on their own in the end.

Restructuring was not a viable option. It was a sale or chapter 7.