US Pilot Labor Thread

[ussnark]

Prior to that announcement very very few were willing to open their checkbook.

So wrong. There were two other entities that wanted US. So much BS from you.

 

[nostradamus]

Again, for the umpteenth time, just why do you think that Parker had ANY interest in U at the time? Maybe TO SAVE HIS OWN COMPANY, just like he said? I guess that's just too easy to believe for some folks. The bottom line is, BOTH COMPANIES NEEDED EACH OTHER. There is no doubt in my mind, and according to Doug, his either, that BOTH COMPANIES WOULD BE GONE TODAY IF THE MERGER HAD NOT HAPPENED.

Both saved each other. PERIOD. Put any spin on it you want, but that's the real answer.

BOTH compnies had to figure into this, and neither is more deserving of credit than the other.

I tell you what we should do, lets run each side separately for a few years, and see what shakes out. Lets see who was growing or who was shrinking the most. Oh, we already did that.

 

[ussnark]

A plan with no financing is not a plan it is a prayer.

Absent America West there was no-one willing to pony up operating cash.

AWA ponied up nothing. No cash, no notes, nothing. Are you afraid to read the documentation?

I don't know where you get the information that US was on its last legs but that is so total BS.

 

[700UW]

Everything I read in the Seabury report indicates that those funds were contingent on America West's participation.

If America West had not made USAir's payroll in the last month who do you think would have?

Let me say it again, this POR was not released to the public, so you never would have read it.

It invovled GECAS taking back most of their planes, and ZW and RPs participation.

The POR was confidential.

Once again, were you there at CCY?

 

[ussnark]

If America West had not made USAir's payroll in the last month who do you think would have?

Um, hand waving wildly, US? Because US did not need it at that time, actually, ever.

Who are you that you think you can postulate from second and third sourced "info" and post "what really happened", as if you read something in a comic book and decided it was "true"? Perhaps were you to acquaint yourself with information that can be lawfully filed against if untrue, you likely would have a different view of what happened, instead of the typical he said, she said, "facts".

 

[ableoneable]

Let me say it again, this POR was not released to the public, so you never would have read it.

It invovled GECAS taking back most of their planes, and ZW and RPs participation.

The POR was confidential.

Once again, were you there at CCY?

I guess only those who were there being fed information by the company in an effort to gain concessions has a right to an opinion.

I give up. You clearly have the big picture.

 

[700UW]

You were not there, you were not privy to the confidential information that was checked by the IAM actuaries.

But hey you know exactly what happened and you are telling those of us who were involved that you know it all and we are all wrong.

Yet we were at CCY and involved.

 

[ussnark]

You were not there, you were not privy to the confidential information that was checked by the IAM actuaries.

But hey you know exactly what happened and you are telling those of us who were involved that you know it all and we are all wrong.

Yet we were at CCY and involved.

Sad, isn't it? Ignoring reality seems so, vogue, these days. Clinging to their fantasies of AWA buying US. The evidence is buried as deep as logging onto the SEC website, an apparent impossible task for some.

 

[EastUS]

Yeah that sucks man... I had cartilage torn to the bone on my kneecap and damage done to the medial femur. Mine was also a scope. But they had to do "micro-fracture" on the kneecap. It leaks marrow out and that becomes scar tissue which i guess is the next best thing to real cartilage... I'll be on a glucosamine (sp?) diet for the rest of my life. I tried this morning to cut my meds in half. Um... Yeah... That's not gonna work. So here i sit stoned...

Ouch! For what very little it's worth by way of cold comfort sir; I had a long-ago chainsaw job (really orthroscopic as well) to a knee that involved reshaping bone/the patella/rendering a "quart" or so of coleslaw-quality, cartilage shreds/etc, and..as much as it was thoroughly miserable for a very few weeks afterwards...It's worked pretty much "like new" for many years now (skiiing/biking/whatever). This isn't much to offer, I know, but I'd think it will get tremendously better over the course of a couple of months or so ..and you'll eventually be very, very happy that you had it taken care of.

Take Care/The Best

 

[Jester]

So wrong. There were two other entities that wanted US. So much BS from you.

So who showed up to provide a counter to Parker's proposal? There was a required time period for which anyone could offer something better or different. If I recall there was a crazy woman out of Atlanta who claimed to have European investors, but that's as far it it went. Alabama Public Pension Fund had enough with a $240 million taste of US Airways earlier.

Maybe if Parker didn't show, someone else might have, but that would be speculation on your behalf. Any plan would have required massive shrinking to profitablity and that's rarely successful in a hub type of airline operation. As it stood most airline players were trying to figure which parts of the US carass would be the best pickings during liquidation.

I will say this much that I sincerely doubt both East and West would still be in business if not for the merger either.

So Recounts Jester.

 

[700UW]

Parker never made a proposal, the merger proposal was made by Lakefield and Seabury and Associates.

US approached HP, not the other way around.

US had the exclusive right to file a POR, not Parker and HP.

US had several POR plans on the table and picked the one that gave the creditors the greater return.

 

[tazz]

You know what, you wont seek the truth, your information is off base.

I was there, were you?

Read my post again, there were several reasons why US filed.

We lived it, you didnt.

Ok, you were there, you lived it. We get it. How about establishing some credibility. In what capacity were you there? What purpose did you serve?

 

[tazz]

The west has pilots with four years service being furloughed? Really?

New hires out east, with seven years seniority being furloughed before four year west pilots? Travesty, indeed.

You need to get your numbers straight.

How many years did they actually serve during their seven years of seniority?

 

[Jester]

Parker never made a proposal, the merger proposal was made by Lakefield and Seabury and Associates.

US approached HP, not the other way around.

US had the exclusive right to file a POR, not Parker and HP.

US had several POR plans on the table and picked the one that gave the creditors the greater return.

The Plan of Re-organization is "exclusive", but it is not carte blanche to force it upon creditors sans consideration from other parties, including those same creditors who could offer their own proposal. Otherwise management could make a deal that was less than maximum return for creditors without concerns of outside 3rd parties offering alternative proposals. Consider the battle for TWA and the competing proposals between Icahn and AA.

While Lakefield & Company might have had submitted a different plan, this would not have precluded Parker from offering his own proposal (especially as Parker was searching for an east coast hub after the failed bid for ATA at MDW several months prior). As it turned out Lakefield and Parker were in agreement, and no outside 3rd party appeared in court to offer a counter proposal. Your assumption is that Lakefield had alternative plans, but clearly they were not "better", as large scale downsizing that probably would have followed.

So Submits Jester.

 

[Tiger 1050]

Ouch! For what very little it's worth by way of cold comfort sir; I had a long-ago chainsaw job (really orthroscopic as well) to a knee that involved reshaping bone/the patella/rendering a "quart" or so of coleslaw-quality, cartilage shreds/etc, and..as much as it was thoroughly miserable for a very few weeks afterwards...It's worked pretty much "like new" for many years now (skiiing/biking/whatever). This isn't much to offer, I know, but I'd think it will get tremendously better over the course of a couple of months or so ..and you'll eventually be very, very happy that you had it taken care of.

Take Care/The Best

Well sounds like I should refrain from continued whining to my wife and kids... I can't say they came up with a "quart" of coleslaw... Man that sounds pretty bad. I did get pictures though and it makes me wonder why it never hurt worse than it did. Especially on longer runs. So you have a testimony that the process works? I recently started running about 7 mos. ago and I'd like to make it a regular habit for the rest of my life. My new goal is to get healed and run a half marathon in early spring...