US Pilots' Labor Discussion 11/17-11/30..ALL Pilot Labor Issues Discussed HERE

[cubfan]

Actually, that is incorrect.

If anything, it would implement it right away.

HP. just curious. how? It would if the company wanted it to. The company could also get a couple east and west together and get some input as to what the best solution would be then make the decision. The NIC was a list proposed by an arbitrator thru a union process. The court upheld that decision because they felt that part of the union agreed upon process/decision followed the new union. If union representation was totally gone, my question would be could the court still enforce the nic? If the company decided to go a different route in what they felt would be in their best interest, seniority would then become a business decision. I'm not advocating no union because though I feel companies do what ever they want from a business perspective, a union or working agreement still acts as a watch dog not allowing certain behavior.

 

[john john]

Do you realize that the magical "Gold Standard" doesn't exist? Do you know that phrase was made up by Lee Seham....A guy who already has a problem with the truth?

It Exits at ever union on the property of USAirways Flight Attendants, Mechanics, Utility, stores, ramp, tower, operations, all passengers service agents, dispatcher, AND YES PILOTS. And just about every union in the world
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[BoeingBoy]

What happens if 50%+1 don’t vote at all?

Under current rules the union loses - thanks because I forget to mention that. But you've got to get the NMB to hold the election first, which is where the "strawman" opponent to the incumbent union comes in. Under current rules there is just no way to get around having to have some organization or individual challenge the incumbent union because it's the only way to get an election.

Jim

 

[BoeingBoy]

It Exits at ever union on the property of USAirways Flight Attendants, Mechanics, Utility, stores, ramp, tower, operations, all passengers service agents, dispatcher, AND YES PILOTS. And just about every union in the world
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Funny how it wasn't the "gold standard" when the integration with the Shuttle pilots came along...

Jim

 

[CallawayGolf]

If you are original HP you need a history lesson on your airline and management bottom of the industry pay and work rules of HP

Go survey any non-contract employee and ask them:
1. When did you last receive a raise?
2. How many raises have you had since the merger?
3. Do you receive profit sharing or other incentive compensation?
4. Are you eligible for Triple Play / Pinch Hitter bonuses?
5. Are you eligible for to be a $10k A&B drawing winner?
6. On a scale of 1-10, how satisfied are you with US Airways?
7. Who negotiated your compensation and benefits package?

The answers to the above might just shock you. Wages, bonuses and benefits equal to or better than those who work under a CBA simply because the company deems them to be required to attract and retain good employees? Best of all: no union dues or needless bureaucracies to mess up the employer-employee relationship.

 

[boeingplt]

Funny how it wasn't the "gold standard" when the integration with the Shuttle pilots came along...

Jim

Thats because the Shuttle Pilots wanted their Eastern DOH. Just a small snag there Jim.

 

[john john]

Wages, bonuses and benefits equal to or better than those who work under a CBA simply because the company deems them to be required to attract and retain good employees?

Again the CUSTOMER SERVICE AGENTS, CTO AGENTS
RESERVATIONS SALES AGENTS, CLUB REPRESENTATIVES
At HP received a 5.00+ a hour rise under the CBA of USAirways. The union deems it to be required to attract and retain good employees

 

[BoeingBoy]

Thats because the Shuttle Pilots wanted their Eastern DOH. Just a small snag there Jim.

But I thought DOH was the Gold Standard...

Why then did the US side propose an integration based on pay (which would have put the Shuttle pilots lower than they ended up) and not either DOH?

Oh...I suppose if US spun assets off and you went along with them you'd be happy being considered a new hire at the acquiring company, right? Despite all that fragmentation language in the contract. I may have been born at night, but it wasn't last night...

Jim

 

[john john]

But you've got to get the NMB to hold the election first, which is where the "strawman" opponent to the incumbent union comes in.
Jim

And who do you thing will support an anti union campaign?

 

[nic4us]

All this talk of a non-union shop? As Arte Johnson would say....."veeerrry interesting,,,,,but stupid."

If you "can't think of a single improvement" that union organization has made to your airline career, you are not looking at the obvious, while highlighting all the negatives that have occured in the industry since deregulation and blaming those regressions on organized labor.

The single most important function a union has is to protect the individual worker from wrongful termination. This is all the more critical in a safety related industry such as ours, where common everyday decisions would risk your employment if it were not for this protection.

Second, the union bridges the gap between managements as they come and go. Sure, your getting along fine with the current management when times are good and they are treating you right, but when things go South and the board appoints a new CEO, you would wish there was a contract in place to at least have something to negotiate, rather than be dictated to. Things do not even have to go bad, the new CEO may just want a bigger bonus paid out of your pocket.

Third, in our case, it is not that the union is a bad thing, it is that the bad thing became the union. To paraphrase J. Prater, "what kind of union is founded on the idea of failing its own members", answere of course usapa. All this nonsensical BS they argue is just an after the fact excuse of why it is okay to break the law. Does not change the fact that the law was broken, and what they are trying to do is the absolute "Gold Standard" of unpricipled union misconduct.

To sum, I do not have a bumper sticker on my bag. I do not wear a lanyard. I do not treat my fellow employees with anything less than common courtesy. I do not support this anti-union organization that discriminates against its members. But, I must be the "one in a million", because if I see a picket line at the Fry's grocery store, I go and buy milk and bread from Basha's.

 

[Heretic]

Go survey any non-contract employee and ask them:

After you are done asking them, ask those no longer employed because they:
1. Didn't kiss their boss' a** as well as their cubicle mate.
2. Didn't have a Mumsy or Dadsy who got them their job.
3. Didn't have a Dad that plays golf with ______. (Fill in the blank)
4. Didn't tow the company line and saw the BS for what it was and went elsewhere.
5. Didn't fit into the office "click".
6. Aren't here to make a quick buck (feed) off the host, (USAirways in this example), then move on to find a new host like the locusts that they are.
7. _______. More examples that my meager mind cannot plumb at this time. Please feel free to add your own.

Some of the core tenets of unionism in this country were designed to ameliorate, if not irradicate those problems listed above. Support unionism or not, when making a point it is acceptable to only address the top of the rock. To understand the entire story, one must flip the rock over and observe all of that yuckiness underneath.
But of course, I could be wrong, and those not still employed were poor employees and are now just disgruntled ex-employees with an axe to grind. 🙄

 

[nic4us]

Thats because the Shuttle Pilots wanted their Eastern DOH. Just a small snag there Jim.

And the east pilots want their USAir, Piedmont, PSA etc.. DOH. Same snag?

 

[BoeingBoy]

And who do you thing will support an anti union campaign?

Probably very few unionized groups would want to go non-union. My initial reply was to a question about whether it could be done and if so how. Everything I've said has been entirely theoretical.

Jim

 

[Reed Richards]

Funny how it wasn't the "gold standard" when the integration with the Shuttle pilots came along...

Jim

Funny indeed, considering that was brokered under the internal merger process of our (your) old failed union. We have taken care of that problem.

RR

 

[john john]

My initial reply was to a question about whether it could be done and if so how. Jim

I sure you are not that out of touch with actions that management has made with trying to unorganize the represented groups of the airlines
You better believe management will support any effort with guns loaded