US Pilots' Labor Discussion 11/17-11/30..ALL Pilot Labor Issues Discussed HERE

[luvn737s]

But as hundreds have said here before..no contract will pass a vote, at least until attrition says otherwise.

Hundreds?? Hmmm. 4 - maybe.

 

[BoeingBoy]

The fact that you thought Empire pilots should have been integrated in "relative position" puts us at odds right off the start.

I'm certainly aware that you don't agree but that's been my philosophy through all the mergers. Of that, I've made no secret.

Not my religion, and exactly why I was one of thousands of pilots that has now twice voted on a USAPA CBL that says otherwise.

Isn't that mostly the same pilots that wanted to integrate the Shuttle folks by pay rate?

As to protecting the forward movement of Empire guys by basing it on the F28..give me a break. That is pretty transparent to any aircraft aficionado looking at fleet compositions, even in the 80s. That would have been like protecting either side in the U/PI merger on only 727s. That sir is a crock, to even me. I cannot believe you even present it.

You exaggerate. Empire brought only F28's to that merger. Did PI bring only 727's to the US/PI merger? I think not.

As to giving them only seniority for furlough, I would like to know how that has all worked out for them, and obviously you?

Fortunately, with PI's growth after the PI/Empire merger and prior to the US/PI merger, neither the Empire pilots nor I have been the victim of furlough.

Not one former Empire pilot has ever come close to leaving the property, but every single one has never, in any of the next 2 mergers, been able to use their DOH in a seniority negotiation.

Correction - the Empire pilots weren't able to use their DOH in the next 3 mergers. Don't forgot that USAPA, despite the "Gold Standard". refused to recognize their DOH also.

And to be correct, AWA pilots were indeed offered, and will soon get, their original DOH of furlough purposes.

Yeah, for all of 12 months as I recall...making it vastlly different than given the Empire pilots.

Jim

 

[Reed Richards]

BB: Isn't that mostly the same pilots that wanted to integrate the Shuttle folks by pay rate?

You mean ALPA, not the U pilots. We had no say, none in ALPA merger policy, nor were ever given a vote on any changes to it. Enter USAPA.

BB: You exaggerate. Empire brought only F28's to that merger. Did PI bring only 727's to the US/PI merger? I think not.

"Brought to that merger?" I thought you were buying an airline and route structure, not a piece of equipment. One more nail in the coffin for using business expectations for pilot list mergers. You fenced the Empire guys out, indeed, right to the bottom of the list, with no consideration of DOH.

BB: Correction - the Empire pilots weren't able to use their DOH in the next 3 mergers. Don't forgot that USAPA, despite the "Gold Standard". refused to recognize their DOH also

Give me a break. You voted on a CBA incorporating the EMPIRE pilots to the bottom of your list, without DOH, and you can read only a few posts back to see why we cannot change that, or any other list already incorporated into a contract. Don't even bother to tell me we can "try" to do so...we stand Zero chance of succeeding. You did it to the Empire pilots, and benefited from it for 20 years. Good run for you personally Jim.

RR