US Pilots Labor Discussion 5/13- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[N924PS]

Even under ALPA, accepting or rejecting the integrated seniority list occurred at ratification. Nothing has changed accept that time keeps on marching. I don't know if I'll still be around by the time if/when there is a ratification vote.

Everyday I wake up and pinch myself to see if I am still dreaming.. Today is one more day that Lance and J.P. don't have their foot on my neck and their hand in my pocket?!

From where I sit, save for the "fuel school" issue , USAPA hasn't delivered as a labor union.

It's more like a nightmare than a dream come true. Today is one more day that the tyranny of the majority keeps all USAirways pilots at bottom of the barrel while senior management laughs all the way to the bank.

Perhaps a ratification vote will be here sooner than you think if the 9th Circuit decision upholds Judge Wake.

 

[GuntherA320]

As usual you get it all wrong. They are trying to help furloughs secure a job now rather than waiting a year or more to return to UA at the bottom... where they were when they left.

As for USAir, well USAPA is too busy screwing things up on your property to have the forethought of trying to secure jobs for your own pilots at Delta. I guess they figure it's not important since it would only help west pilots and not east pilots. Oh wait, that's right... you already lost a DFR suit for not representing the west interests. Whats new?

Oh well, once the courts fix the problem, the pilots furloughed out of seniority will get their jobs back and I'm sure the damages awarded will make them whole again.

Oh my.....when did USAPA furlough pilots out of seniority???? Wait....that's right....the company is the one that furloughs pilots....not USAPA....as a matter of fact....i'm pretty sure the court already threw out the complaint from AOL against the company. Did you miss that one? We are still two separate entities. The court ruled that the company could furlough as it pleased. The union doesn't have anything to do with that. But come on over here to the US Airways board and tell us how you are gonna take care of your furloughees at United. That's right...you're not gonna fight for them....you've already told those guys that have 10 years of service at UAL and 6 months on furlough...sorry....you're screwed....I got mine.....good luck on getting a job at Delta. You are such a good example of everything that is "good" with ALPA.

 

[Phoenix]

From where I sit, save for the "fuel school" issue , USAPA hasn't delivered as a labor union.

It's more like a nightmare than a dream come true. Today is one more day that the tyranny of the majority keeps all USAirways pilots at bottom of the barrel while senior management laughs all the way to the bank.

Perhaps a ratification vote will be here sooner than you think if the 9th Circuit decision upholds Judge Wake.

I can certainly grant you that USAPA has not delivered as a labor union according to the mold established ever since deregulation. A labor union MO for "delivering the goods" usually means separating the seniority groups and degrading the lower half in order to keep or advance the upper half. Labor unions have a colored past at delivering the goods, and it wasn't just ALPA. B scale at AA, RJs in abundance at Comair, the stock plan at SW, Metrojet, Ted, Song, Reno, pay for training, scope loss, etc. Lest we doubt the MO of "delivery", ALPA has been at the helm during the degeneration of the profession to where there are more ALPA pilots flying at regionals than Majors.

Yep.. USAPA hasn't delivered, well at least evidently from where you sit. Its a nightmare that all of these deliveries that we have become so accustomed to receive from a labor union just don't seem to be what they used to be.

 

[nic4us]

You're getting soft on us. Keep your eye on the prize.

I am not getting soft. Vote as you see fit. I mean it really. You paid the price for your vote, use it. usapa has stooped to new all time lows in labor history in order to get you your vote. Keep the bad faith and cast a ballot.

 

[767jetz]

Oh my.....when did USAPA furlough pilots out of seniority???? Wait....that's right....the company is the one that furloughs pilots....not USAPA....as a matter of fact....i'm pretty sure the court already threw out the complaint from AOL against the company. Did you miss that one? We are still two separate entities. The court ruled that the company could furlough as it pleased. The union doesn't have anything to do with that. But come on over here to the US Airways board and tell us how you are gonna take care of your furloughees at United. That's right...you're not gonna fight for them....you've already told those guys that have 10 years of service at UAL and 6 months on furlough...sorry....you're screwed....I got mine.....good luck on getting a job at Delta. You are such a good example of everything that is "good" with ALPA.

What a waste of bandwidth.

Enjoy your misery.

 

[767jetz]

It is not Steve Bradford or Mark King’s place to judge either the leadership style or persona of our elected officials, but as member pilots we will not sit idly by and have this fine Union travel down the same path to failure as our last!

Sincerely,

Steve Bradford, USAPA founding President

Mark King, USAPA founding Secretary Treasurer

Sounds like the same thing many have said from the start to some of the posters on this forum. Your union is made up of YOUR own pilots who YOU elect. It doesn't matter if the your union wears the name ALPA, USAPA, APA, or any other name. If the same rotten eggs run the show they will steer you into harms way or total failure regardless. You will have the same results as before, and pointing the finger at the "national " or anyone else is pure denial.

Your problems come from within. They always have.

 

[Phoenix]

I have chosen to give back some bandwidth. Have a great week!

 

[cleardirect]

What a waste of bandwidth.

Enjoy your misery.

I think that the east pilot really do enjoy misery. There can be no other explanation. They go out of their way to be miserable.

I am beginning to think that east pilot do not know how to be happy.

 

[N924PS]

I can certainly grant you that USAPA has not delivered as a labor union according to the mold established ever since deregulation. A labor union MO for "delivering the goods" usually means separating the seniority groups and degrading the lower half in order to keep or advance the upper half. Labor unions have a colored past at delivering the goods, and it wasn't just ALPA. B scale at AA, RJs in abundance at Comair, the stock plan at SW, Metrojet, Ted, Song, Reno, pay for training, scope loss, etc. Lest we doubt the MO of "delivery", ALPA has been at the helm during the degeneration of the profession to where there are more ALPA pilots flying at regionals than Majors.

Yep.. USAPA hasn't delivered, well at least evidently from where you sit. Its a nightmare that all of these deliveries that we have become so accustomed to receive from a labor union just don't seem to be what they used to be.

Nice spin, as usual.

Tell me how USAPA has made the life of the pilots it represents better than under the previous union.

 

[767jetz]

Someone posted an e-mail or letter called "The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly." I think it was from Mike Cleary and one other rep and it was the third installment. (Basically the ugly part.) It talked about the politics of USAPA and where they were failing and falling into past habits. If it was legit it was a good read. The post has, for some reason, mysteriously disappeared with no explanation. (Including my response to it.)

Did anyone else read it and can anyone post a link the letter?
Moderators? Was it too long or break some board rule?

Moderator note:
Email has been deleted, see my warning.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Someone posted an e-mail or letter called "The Good, The Bad, And The Ugly." I think it was from Mike Cleary and one other rep and it was the third installment. (Basically the ugly part.) It talked about the politics of USAPA and where they were failing and falling into past habits. If it was legit it was a good read. The post has, for some reason, mysteriously disappeared with no explanation. (Including my response to it.)

Did anyone else read it and can anyone post a link the letter?
Moderators? Was it too long or break some board rule?

It was not from Mike Cleary, but rather from two of the USAPA founders Steve Bradford and Mark King. The two founders feel that the union is straying from its original vision, and that it is resembling ALPA more and more.

They cite FPL abuses, committee chairmen who haven't flown the line in decades, certain other perks which were over indulged in by ALPA and seem to be returning.

They describe some of the unpleasant circumstances regarding the departure - or what led to it - of Dave Ciabattoni.

Most important, they accuse Cleary and Mowry (SP?) of abusing and aggrandizing power by changing the structure and functionality of the leaderhip team.

But other than that, everything is just peachy keen.

 

[Edward]

Folks once again I want to remind everyone to read the board rules before you post. Do not post emails(see rule 3). I just finished removing emails.

 

[westcoastflyer]

Any credible information on how the mediated contract negotiations went last week? Not a word from the NAC or the BPR yet. Anybody know if they met all week or just a few days?

 

[Crzipilot]

There was a very quick blurb in the newsletter that went out on the 14th...

 

[boeingplt]

Any credible information on how the mediated contract negotiations went last week? Not a word from the NAC or the BPR yet. Anybody know if they met all week or just a few days?

USAPA puts out its updates on Tuesday and Friday. I read that last week's negotiations were scheduled through Friday so I would expect to see something in this Tuesday's update.