US Pilots Labor Discussion 5/13- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[cleardirect]

The post I was responding to referred to USAirways, not the industry. But the REAL pipe dream in all of this is the damages you westies are envisioning. Want to see some usually somber bankers get a belly laugh? Just go down to the bank and attempt to get a loan based on that half million you are so sure you are going to get.

Try getting a loan on the CoC or LOA 93 grievance. How confident are you of that?

 

[Ames]

Except it is only the west pilots that have resisted DOH. It's already settled for all the other organized labor groups at USAirways, and they have DOH. I would call that far from being a waste of time. It's more like the trend.

Why do you keep spinning this so? All of us involved know damn well that the other organized labor groups at USAirways who merged by DOH did so because that was the methodology of their individual unions.

The alpa merger policy DID NOT provide for DOH. We followed the applicable methodology to a tee which resulted in the east's actually rejecting a final and binding decision - unprecedented in the history of arbitration.

I believe that you east pilots will continue saying whatever you want (however untrue) in hopes that by repeating the same thing over and over people will begin to believe you. Much like the east bought the west argument.

The ninth will eventually rule. That's all that matters at this point. Until then I guess you'll keep spinning...

 

[Flippin43]

Guys read the AAA MEC blast email. C**** was a furloughed USAiways pilot. He got this email.

“The MEC directed the MEC officers and Negotiating Committee to inform US Airways management that the MEC ... objects to any potential or contemplated code sharing arrangement with Freedom Air unless its pilots are represented by ALPA. The US Airways MEC supports the actions of ALPA International’s Executive Council and Executive Board in opposing the formation of Freedom Air as a non-union entity, and directed that all furloughed US Airways pilots be notified of the Executive Board, Executive Council and MEC’s opposition to Freedom Air. Any pilot on the US Airways seniority list that accepts employment with Freedom Air will lose all US Airways MEC-sponsored ALPA privileges, including but not limited to jumpseat, health insurance, web access, furlough administrator access, and ALPA-provided job search programs. If applicable, the US Airways MEC will file Article VIII charges against any US Airways seniority list pilot accepting or remaining in employment with Freedom Air after February 1, 2003, for engaging in action detrimental to the Association.”

C**** admits he was there until May 03.

C****, Steven #40525, DOH 1/6/03.


And now this guy wants to work for our union. How can he be trusted? He actually accepted a job that was understood by everybody to be designed to sabotage the negotiating ability of actual Union Pilots.

All west pilots believe that usapa was started to avoid the Nicolau Award. Most east pilots say No we just had enough of Alpa. We will see if that is true now. How can anyone who wants a better Union than Alpa condone this type of behavior that is considered by all Unions as REPULSIVE.

If cleary doesn't ask him to resign his campaign AND his posistion on the BPR we will have our answer.


If usapa wants to be considered Legitimate there is only one way this should go.


Flip

PS. there is 11 more of these types that worked for Freedom out east as well.

 

[Freebird]

Except it is only the west pilots that have resisted DOH. It's already settled for all the other organized labor groups at USAirways, and they have DOH. I would call that far from being a waste of time. It's more like the trend.

So far the TREND has been Usapa LOSING at every turn. What does that tell you?

I'm sure you think it would be fair for a furloughed pilot to return as a line holding Captain...Wake Up. The alarm you hear is called REALITY.


Vote for Eric Ferguson in the EVP ballots. He DIDN'T work for FREEDOM AIR.

NRBAGFY

 

[westcoastflyer]

So far the TREND has been Usapa LOSING at every turn. What does that tell you?

I'm sure you think it would be fair for a furloughed pilot to return as a line holding Captain...Wake Up. The alarm you hear is called REALITY.

Vote for Eric Ferguson in the EVP ballots. He DIDN'T work for FREEDOM AIR.

NRBAGFY

It seems like Eric Ferguson should be able to win this election. The votes of the East guys, who are usually fairly apathetic anyway, are going to be split six ways. If the West guys can vote as a group for Eric, he should win easily. That will finally get the West some much needed representation within USAPA.

 

[Metroyet]

ame='Freebird' date='14 May 2010 - 08:16 AM' timestamp='1273850218' post='743950']
So far the TREND has been Usapa LOSING at every turn. What does that tell you?

I'm sure you think it would be fair for a furloughed pilot to return as a line holding Captain...Wake Up. The alarm you hear is called REALITY.



NRBAGFY

It seems like Eric Ferguson should be able to win this election. The votes of the East guys, who are usually fairly apathetic anyway, are going to be split six ways. If the West guys can vote as a group for Eric, he should win easily. That will finally get the West some much needed representation within USAPA.

You're forgetting that little gem that your "founding fathers" made sure was in the C&BL. It was custom designed for these situations. If EF doesn't get 50%, which he probably wont as it's statistically impossible with an East/West voting block, there is a run off. That way the East can attempt to get organized and get there man in. IOW, it's a do over because the East didn't like the first result...sound familiar?

 

[GuntherA320]

You're forgetting that little gem that your "founding fathers" made sure was in the C&BL. It was custom designed for these situations. If EF doesn't get 50%, which he probably wont as it's statistically impossible with an East/West voting block, there is a run off. That way the East can attempt to get organized and get there man in. IOW, it's a do over because the East didn't like the first result...sound familiar?

You are right metro. The current election is just a determination of which 2 or possibly 3 candidates will actually run against each other. I seriously doubt Eric has much of a chance if it is narrowed down to 2 candidates. The east will never vote for the founder of AOL. In order for Eric to be elected he will need east votes.....and a lot of them. The east out numbers the west 2.5 to 1 in Members in Good Standing. If after the first election, only HALF of the east MIGs vote, the west would still be out numbered 1.25 to 1 if every west MIG votes. The west should have picked a better candidate if they wanted to seriously have someone from the west elected as EVP.

 

[Freebird]

You are right metro. The current election is just a determination of which 2 or possibly 3 candidates will actually run against each other. I seriously doubt Eric has much of a chance if it is narrowed down to 2 candidates. The east will never vote for the founder of AOL. The west should have picked a better candidate if they wanted to seriously have someone in from the west for EVP.

Eric may not win in a run-off. And thats too bad.

I'm sure he'd like to be there to see the frustration on Clearys face when he has to address the East pilots and tell them "theres nothing more I can do. I failed you. I knew i was going to fail you a long time ago, yet I wasted your dues money keeping your dreams of DOH alive. I have decided to accept the Nicolau Award, as I am required by law, to reduce any damages that will occur against this union, and myself and its officers personally. We may not agree with the award, but it was in fact, done properly and fairly within the confines of the procedures set forth by our representation. I will be stepping down, and spending some time with my buddy Seham, discussing what we are going to do with all the dues money we've fleeced you of. Thankfully, I've squandered enough to retire and not have to put up with this carrier anymore. Good Luck. I can be reached on my fishing boat in South Florida."

 

[GuntherA320]

Eric may not win in a run-off. And thats too bad.

I'm sure he'd like to be there to see the frustration on Clearys face when he has to address the East pilots and tell them "theres nothing more I can do. I failed you. I knew i was going to fail you a long time ago, yet I wasted your dues money keeping your dreams of DOH alive. I have decided to accept the Nicolau Award, as I am required by law, to reduce any damages that will occur against this union, and myself and its officers personally. We may not agree with the award, but it was in fact, done properly and fairly within the confines of the procedures set forth by our representation. I will be stepping down, and spending some time with my buddy Seham, discussing what we are going to do with all the dues money we've fleeced you of. Thankfully, I've squandered enough to retire and not have to put up with this carrier anymore. Good Luck. I can be reached on my fishing boat in South Florida."

LOL Freebird. I know you're speaking in jest as you know that speech will never be made. While one day....somewhere down the road the Nicolau probably will be the seniority list. It is a long way away from fruition. Eric will probably have another chance to run in 2 years. However.....If i were a west pilot.....I would have wanted a serious candidate put forward that actually had a chance of winning. I'm sure it is a basic misunderstanding by the west pilots of how the system works. I'm sure you thought if you narrowed it down to one pilot and everyone out west voted for him that you could "sneak" in that pilot. I'm sure that most west pilots didn't know that to win outright in the initial election that the winner had to receive more than 50% of the vote. It is why you haven't seen east pilots worried. It doesn't matter what east pilot we vote for in the initial election as long as we vote. At this moment....I can tell you that more than 1500 east pilots have voted and there is still a week to go. Metroyet isn't even a US Airways pilot and he understands it.

 

[nycbusdriver]

Try getting a loan on the CoC or LOA 93 grievance. How confident are you of that?

Separate matter altogether. And I'm not the one gloating over pipedream "damages" to the tune of half a million. What an absurd joke. Do they ever do random drug tests out west?

 

[nycbusdriver]

Guys read the AAA MEC blast email. C**** was a furloughed USAiways pilot. He got this email.

“The MEC directed the MEC officers and Negotiating Committee to inform US Airways management that the MEC ... objects to any potential or contemplated code sharing arrangement with Freedom Air unless its pilots are represented by ALPA. The US Airways MEC supports the actions of ALPA International’s Executive Council and Executive Board in opposing the formation of Freedom Air as a non-union entity, and directed that all furloughed US Airways pilots be notified of the Executive Board, Executive Council and MEC’s opposition to Freedom Air. Any pilot on the US Airways seniority list that accepts employment with Freedom Air will lose all US Airways MEC-sponsored ALPA privileges, including but not limited to jumpseat, health insurance, web access, furlough administrator access, and ALPA-provided job search programs. If applicable, the US Airways MEC will file Article VIII charges against any US Airways seniority list pilot accepting or remaining in employment with Freedom Air after February 1, 2003, for engaging in action detrimental to the Association.”

C**** admits he was there until May 03.

C****, Steven #40525, DOH 1/6/03.


And now this guy wants to work for our union. How can he be trusted? He actually accepted a job that was understood by everybody to be designed to sabotage the negotiating ability of actual Union Pilots.

All west pilots believe that usapa was started to avoid the Nicolau Award. Most east pilots say No we just had enough of Alpa. We will see if that is true now. How can anyone who wants a better Union than Alpa condone this type of behavior that is considered by all Unions as REPULSIVE.

If cleary doesn't ask him to resign his campaign AND his posistion on the BPR we will have our answer.


If usapa wants to be considered Legitimate there is only one way this should go.


Flip

PS. there is 11 more of these types that worked for Freedom out east as well.

Why don't you guys save your bandwidth.

First, he's not going to win. I doubt he will be in the top three.

Second, the east pilots have been given time in the cornfield for repeatedly bringing up verifiable west scabbing. I can't imagine why the moderators aren't giving vacation time to you guys for the same reason.

Third, if he never flew a revenue flight for Freedom, it's pretty difficult to call him a strikebreaker. So, he cost the airline a free type rating. Sounds like a good deal to me....cost the union-busters much money for no return on investment.

 

[cactusboy53]

LOL Freebird. I know you're speaking in jest as you know that speech will never be made. While one day....somewhere down the road the Nicolau probably will be the seniority list. It is a long way away from fruition. Eric will probably have another chance to run in 2 years. However.....If i were a west pilot.....I would have wanted a serious candidate put forward that actually had a chance of winning. I'm sure it is a basic misunderstanding by the west pilots of how the system works. I'm sure you thought if you narrowed it down to one pilot and everyone out west voted for him that you could "sneak" in that pilot. I'm sure that most west pilots didn't know that to win outright in the initial election that the winner had to receive more than 50% of the vote. It is why you haven't seen east pilots worried. It doesn't matter what east pilot we vote for in the initial election as long as we vote. At this moment....I can tell you that more than 1500 east pilots have voted and there is still a week to go. Metroyet isn't even a US Airways pilot and he understands it.

G;
What you may not know is that Eric is supported by more than few USAPA members. There are some officers that specifically asked him to consider running for office. Eric has been a USAPA member from day one, and frankly there is no other more serious candidate for EVP office.

While the sheer numbers may be against Eric, I think you will find it interesting how many pilots out east vote for him. Eric is an articulate, sharp guy. He holds no animosity toward any pilot (east or west). He further realizes that we must move forward, and that delay is not an option.

Happy Trails....

 

[hp_fa]

I try and stay away from the internal politics issues, especially elections. But wouldn't it be interesting if East moderates voted for Eric for both a PHX viewpoint to the executive board and/or as a signal to Cleary that they are not happy with the ways things have, and are, going.

 

[Flippin43]

Why don't you guys save your bandwidth.

First, he's not going to win. I doubt he will be in the top three.

Second, the east pilots have been given time in the cornfield for repeatedly bringing up verifiable west scabbing. I can't imagine why the moderators aren't giving vacation time to you guys for the same reason.

Third, if he never flew a revenue flight for Freedom, it's pretty difficult to call him a strikebreaker. So, he cost the airline a free type rating. Sounds like a good deal to me....cost the union-busters much money for no return on investment.

Yeah Yeah, mitigation at its finest................Read the post again and see just how YOUR ELECTED REPS at the time felt about those who did this work. Its pretty clear they didn't recommend every Furloughed AAA pilot go get a Type and leave.........

He is still a BPR member right...................Now that we know he aided an attack on Unionized Pilots, how can he still be a member of THE Union that is suppose to be for the PILOT from the ground up and better than Alpa???

If your runnin with Drug dealers and Crack Whores...............you might be one. What kind of company does usapa want to keep??

Clearly the standards over at World Headquarters aren't too high.......


Flip

 

[88 B.T.D.]

I say vote for a captain, let someone else upgrade next bid..