US Pilots Labor Discussion 9/29-10/7

[usa1]

Agree .. Piedmont1984

 

[Metroyet]

The point is - they will do their job, so they won't quit or be fired. CRM on the other hand, will suffer enormously, rendering it unrecognizable. This constitutes an unacceptable risk to flight safety. The FAA will maintain a hands off approach and LCC could care less. It will be up to us to recognize that mixing up east and west in the cockpit is the same as going below minimums or flying fatigued.

Frankly this just sounds like playing the "Safety" card as a last ditch attempt to with hold legal rights from the minority. Nobody wanted this merger on either side...but the facts are the facts and nobody in management is envisioning a perpetual dual ops/single certificate airline.

 

[N924PS]

The point is - they will do their job, so they won't quit or be fired. CRM on the other hand, will suffer enormously, rendering it unrecognizable. This constitutes an unacceptable risk to flight safety. The FAA will maintain a hands off approach and LCC could care less. It will be up to us to recognize that mixing up east and west in the cockpit is the same as going below minimums or flying fatigued.

I disagree.

Except for a few "morons" ( to coin a phrase from NYCBusdriver) 99% of pilots East or West are grown up professionals that will do the job.

If they don't want to fly with a West pilot, the "AVOID BID" should still be available to preclude an "unacceptable risk to flight safety."

There would't be many West pilots coming East any time soon, since few Captain upgrades will be available based on no attrition on the East for 3-5 more years and a static fleet plan based on the T/A minimum fleets. At least 100 and probably more East pilots regrettably will be back on furlough as the 190's disappear over the next year or two. Many 190 Captains will be returning to F/O positions on other fleets.

If the appeal process is not favorable to the East, I believe most will want to close a better contract, and will accept the outcome and move on.

 

[HPDriver]

If the appeal process is not favorable to the East, I believe most will want to close a better contract, and will accept the outcome and move on.

Bingo.

 

[Boeing Driver]

I disagree.


If the appeal process is not favorable to the East, I believe most will want to close a better contract, and will accept the outcome and move on.

You would lose that bet.

The attrition you are talking about are US Airways East pilot jobs being vacated by US Airways East pilots. The west pilot's have been salivating over these jobs for some time now - hence all of the heartache out there thinly disguised as "Integrity".

I seriously doubt this theft of jobs that the west pilots think is coming to them will go as they expect.

Boeing Driver

 

[N924PS]

You would lose that bet.

The attrition you are talking about are US Airways East pilot jobs being vacated by US Airways East pilots.

Boeing Driver

Except George Nicolau did not fence that attrition.

So if the East's appeals fail, that attrition belongs to USAirways pilots. And the West pilots are now USAirways pilots represented by USAPA. And USAPA, by law, must abide by the Nicolau Award in ANY contract negotiations.

 

[cactusboy53]

I disagree.

Except for a few "morons" ( to coin a phrase from NYCBusdriver) 99% of pilots East or West are grown up professionals that will do the job.

If they don't want to fly with a West pilot, the "AVOID BID" should still be available to preclude an "unacceptable risk to flight safety."

There wouldn't be many West pilots coming East any time soon, since few Captain upgrades will be available based on no attrition on the East for 3-5 more years and a static fleet plan based on the T/A minimum fleets. At least 100 and probably more East pilots regrettably will be back on furlough as the 190's disappear over the next year or two. Many 190 Captains will be returning to F/O positions on other fleets.

If the appeal process is not favorable to the East, I believe most will want to close a better contract, and will accept the outcome and move on.

A welcomed voice of reason. Thank you. If the appeal is lost in the ninth, STOP ALL senseless, useless, fruitless litigation. Better yet, do something NOW.

Join the new majority. Unseat the uninformed and save us all a bunch of money (read..fines and damages), and co-seat PHL, CLT, PHX, LAS, LGA, BOS & DCA in the Presidency, Vice-Presidency, Treasurer, et al. Refine the committees to reflect a proportional east/west mix. Move the headquarters to the city of the airline home office, and a NEGOTIATE A JOINT CONTRACT AS ONE BODY!!

There is a new web site to join forces and take control legally. Do so before they send USAPA's stellar legal team ANOTHER 2.1 MILLION DOLLARS IN LEGAL FEES!!

 

[Piedmont1984]

Frankly this just sounds like playing the "Safety" card as a last ditch attempt to with hold legal rights from the minority. Nobody wanted this merger on either side...but the facts are the facts and nobody in management is envisioning a perpetual dual ops/single certificate airline.

Or - sometimes playing the "Safety" card is simple and self evident.

Frankly, your sentiment just sounds like a classic example of the tombstone approach to flight safety.

The list of things which this management didn't envision is staggering.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Or - sometimes playing the "Safety" card is simple and self evident.

Frankly, your sentiment just sounds like a classic example of the tombstone approach to flight safety.

The list of things which this management didn't envision is staggering.

Sometimes it is so over the top to fear monger.

If you guys can't fly together and can only fly with people of a certain persuasion maybe those people should not be allowed to fly.

What next? I can't fly with an AWA back end, too many CRM problems.

Or I can't fly with this person because I didn't get my meal on china "over the pond".

Jeez what next, oh the guy with the gun might get nervous when holstering his weapon.

The veiled threat of "I'm unsafe if I have to fly with one of THOSE people." speaks volumes of the level of professionalism that is presented by some.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Sometimes it is so over the top to fear monger.

If you guys can't fly together and can only fly with people of a certain persuasion maybe those people should not be allowed to fly.

What next? I can't fly with an AWA back end, too many CRM problems.

Or I can't fly with this person because I didn't get my meal on china "over the pond".

Jeez what next, oh the guy with the gun might get nervous when holstering his weapon.

The veiled threat of "I'm unsafe if I have to fly with one of THOSE people." speaks volumes of the level of professionalism that is presented by some.

Sometimes it is so over the top to use hyperbole or make simplistic and unrealistic analogies. Mixing east and west will either improve CRM and enhance safety, have a neutral effect on CRM and safety, or it will inevitably result in the scenario I am concerned about.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Sometimes it is so over the top to use hyperbole or make simplistic and unrealistic analogies. Mixing east and west will either improve CRM and enhance safety, have a neutral effect on CRM and safety, or it will inevitably result in the scenario I am concerned about.

Isn't your concern addressed with the do not fly bid?

 

[Irideover]

Isn't your concern addressed with the do not fly bid?

Reserves, aprox 40% on the East, do not have access to "do not fly".
But thanks for your concern.....

 

[cleardirect]

Reserves, aprox 40% on the East, do not have access to "do not fly".
But thanks for your concern.....

The west contract and PBS does.

Problem solved. Unless the no fly list gets to big. Then someone has to look for another job or a change of attitude.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Isn't your concern addressed with the do not fly bid?

Do not fly or avoid fly works when limited to the infrequent pairings where individuals for some reason are not compatible. The system won't work if I "avoid fly" with all west pilots. The system will seize if just a few hundred on either side opt for the same.

I won't be looking for another job.

The other guy will have to change his attitude🙂

Hence, my concern regarding the "safety" card.

 

[Be Careful What You Wish For.]

Reserves, aprox 40% on the East, do not have access to "do not fly".
But thanks for your concern.....

Life as a reserve is tough... I've spent my first 11 years without a life.

I've been at the receiving end of front end "concern" when our contract would impact pilot interests.

Your welcome.