US Pilots Labor Discussion 9/9- STAY ON TOPIC AND OBSERVE THE RULES

[Richard]

OK Ladies and Gentlemen,

We now move on to what will also likely become a 600 plus post thread....

I will repeat the admonishments of past threads-- NO PERSONAL COMMENTS INSULTS REMARKS OR NAMECALLING will be tolerated.

Also I will remind you that the word "Scab" used in the context in which it appeared in the closed thread is INAPPROPRIATE and NOT permitted.

Posts which do not meet the rules of the board will be either edited or removed.

PLEASE observe the rules of the board--they are posted atop EVERY forum on the board.

Thank you.

 

[Pi brat]

nic4us said:

"He spent some time explaining his actions in a usapa released memo or e-mail. He provided the FACTS.

As I recall he claimed he went to the Continental interviews for "practice" under the advice of his father a captain at either DL or UA (I forget which), then went on to explain how he should be a hero because his actions cost Continental money and time, similar to the arguement Crimi used for Freedom.

As I said in my original post on the topic, "define verified". If "verified" means having your name on a certain list the AWA down under pilots are on, then this individual would be equally "verified"."

He did not provide the facts, at least how you are using them. He explained what he did, but most of us do not believe what he did rises to the level of XXXX. You point blank said he was one.

You seem to not agree with the concept of just having your name on list means it's verified, but turn around and use it as proof.

 

[Pi brat]

I'm still waiting(a few days now) on why it was perfectly okay for the west pilots to not pay their dues until the Suzi arbitration was lost. Come on boys, don't disappoint me.

 

[Freebird]

Luvthe9,

Before the thread was closed you stated:

"Especially when that result violates the tenets of a fair integration, ie no windfall. "

Any East poster,

1. Specifically how did it violate the tenets? You may want to read Nicolaus reasoning for the Award.

2. Did your side agree to Binding Arbitration? Yes or No?




Usapa = Actively recruiting thieves to violate Binding Arbitration

 

[Freebird]

Luvthe9,

Before the thread was closed you stated:

"Especially when that result violates the tenets of a fair integration, ie no windfall. "

Any East poster,

1. Specifically how did it violate the tenets? You may want to read Nicolaus reasoning for the Award.

2. Did your side agree to Binding Arbitration? Yes or No


Usapa = Actively recruiting thieves to violate Binding Arbitration

Piedmont wrote;

"Then why don't we wait for the courts to decide which side is right or wrong, before you conclude that you have cornered the market on truth. And should they (the courts) ultimately adjudicate in the west's favor regarding this particular merger, that does not detract from the validity or fairness of a DOH or LOS system going forward. "


Are we waiting for the courts to decide if its OK for the Majority to RENEGE on Binding Arbitration?

We went to Arbitration to settle a disagreement? Right? Both sides elected Nicolau to decide. Right? Your side has decided not to honor the agreement. Right?

What part am I missing? Its straight forward.

The Validity and Fairness argument ended when the Arbitrator took the disagreement. WE ALLOWED HIM TO DECIDE. He decided. It's Over. Except for the continuous justification from the East of how they want to impose C&R's to circumvent the Award. Period.


Usapa = We can't accept the truth. We'll just make up our own.

 

[Pi brat]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg

 

[Freebird]

I'm still waiting(a few days now) on why it was perfectly okay for the west pilots to not pay their dues until the Suzi arbitration was lost. Come on boys, don't disappoint me.

As a protest. Usapa had to turn to threats of pilot's losing their jobs. Extortion?

Extortion that we pay dues to a 'union' that does not represent the West.

A 'union' whose MAIN GOAL is to inflict pain upon its West members.

A 'union' who has zero integrity to honor Binding Arbitration.

A 'union' who is holding all pilots, East and West, hostage from obtaining a new contract with better work rules and pay.

A 'union' formed to steal from the West to make the East whole.

A 'union' who does not operate transparently, because what they are trying to do is unethical.

A 'union' who wields no threat to management.

A 'union' who continually justifies imposing upon its members unfairly.


Nicolau settled the disagreement. It's time for the East to honor it.




Usapa = Help Wanted

 

[BLT]

"Especially when that result violates the tenets of a fair integration, ie no windfall. "

That is an opinion, not a fact, and precisely why we had the seniority list arbitrated by neutral parties.

 

[Freebird]

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8E_zMLCRNg

Is this a video of the East pilots answer to the truth?


Usapa = WE dont have a good reason to avoid the Nicolau Award.

 

[Pi brat]

Is this a video of the East pilots answer to the truth?


Usapa = WE dont have a good reason to avoid the Nicolau Award.

Nope, the sound of west pilots with good reasons for not paying the agreed upon, required, otherwise known as binding dues that were required as a condition of employment, until forced to do so by a massively failed arbitration. Thanks for the reasons, now I can use them as reasons for ignoring binding arbitration and sleep well tonight, since you guys have all the moral, ethical answers and such. It's been bothering for a while, but you have cleared my conscience.

 

[Freebird]

Nope, the sound of west pilots with good reasons for not paying the agreed upon, required, otherwise known as binding dues that were required as a condition of employment, until forced to do so by a massively failed arbitration. Thanks for the reasons, now I can use them as reasons for ignoring binding arbitration and sleep well tonight, since you guys have all the moral, ethical answers and such. It's been bothering for a while, but you have cleared my conscience.

Happy to oblige. But as you may know, the West pilots eventually joined (except for a small handful of whom I am not aware) and complied.

Can we say the same for you? Ready to comply with the Nicolau Award/Binding Arbitration that you FREELY entered into and KNEW that it was part of using a Mediator/Arbitrator?

Usapa = We know the Nic Award is Binding. We know we have to comply. The holding pattern is over. Cleared direct to destination. Nicolau Award.

 

[Pi brat]

Happy to oblige. But as you may know, the West pilots eventually joined (except for a small handful of whom I am not aware) and complied.

Can we say the same for you? Ready to comply with the Nicolau Award/Binding Arbitration that you FREELY entered into and KNEW that it was part of using a Mediator/Arbitrator?

Usapa = We know the Nic Award is Binding. We know we have to comply. The holding pattern is over. Cleared direct to destination. Nicolau Award.

Absolutely, when the party that is overseeing the disagreement(the court system) says I have to, just the same as the west pilots did with this.

 

[luvn737s]

Nope, the sound of west pilots with good reasons for not paying the agreed upon, required, otherwise known as binding dues that were required as a condition of employment, until forced to do so by a massively failed arbitration. Thanks for the reasons, now I can use them as reasons for ignoring binding arbitration and sleep well tonight, since you guys have all the moral, ethical answers and such. It's been bothering for a while, but you have cleared my conscience.

No, the west pilots know what Agency Shop means. They also read USAPA's own constitution which required that members be voted in by their local. PHX had no such local, so absent USAPA changing the rules to suit their needs, no one could become a member prior to the PHX local being established.

The PHX pilots had one tool at their disposal to voice their displeasure at USAPA's jackboot tactics - withholding $$$. USAPA continues to ignore the west, so the remaining tool the west has is to withhold their support for any USAPA job action. This is not lost on Doug Parker.

Sorry your non-sequitur couldn't start.

 

[Pi brat]

No, the west pilots know what Agency Shop means. They also read USAPA's own constitution which required that members be voted in by their local. PHX had no such local, so absent USAPA changing the rules to suit their needs, no one could become a member prior to the PHX local being established.

The PHX pilots had one tool at their disposal to voice their displeasure at USAPA's jackboot tactics - withholding $$$. USAPA continues to ignore the west, so the remaining tool the west has is to withhold their support for any USAPA job action. This is not lost on Doug Parker.

Sorry your non-sequitur couldn't start.

Please, keep 'em coming, I knew you could find some good excuses for doing what you knew wasn't right! Maybe you can lay out some technicalities for USAPA to use. The east pilots had one remaining tool to use against the Nic, getting rid of ALPA. Kind of the same argument, isn't it?

 

[BoeingBoy]

Let me correct that a little:

The east pilots had one remaining tool to use against the Nic get out of an agreement they'd made, getting rid of ALPA. Kind of Not quite the same argument, isn't it?

You see, the West pilots, as a group, didn't agree to the formation of a new union. So they expressed their displeasure using the rules USAPA set up. The West pilots didn't create the loophole that put them in non-member status. The East pilots, on the other hand, created what they thought was (and still think is) a loophole to get out of the binding agreement they'd entered into.

Jim