US Pilots Labor Discussion

[prechilill]

Just 3 or 4? Are you sure about that?

Let's see... luvn737s, aquagreen73s, cleardirect, nic4us, Metroyet, Ames, cactusboy53, CallawayGolf, Freebird, traderjake, flyinawa, exB717Flyer, Bear96, BoeingBoy, N924PS, AWA320, 767jetz, me...

That's 18 right off the top of my head.

We think we've got it down pretty well. Here's your summary: We are right. Nic will be the list at some point. DOH is a pipe dream as well as avoiding arbitration. If DFR II ever happens you will lose. Damages trial will follow. We will never give in. You will live with LOA93 for the rest of your career if you choose. OH! And MOST IMPORTANTLY... debating it with you and your circle jerk buddies is a waste of energy.

When the courts eventually put an end to this, we'll all have more to actually discuss. And speaking of ignoring stupidity, have you noticed how many people are ignoring you guys lately?

You forgot me!
Look, it is obvious to all (except for the diehard USAPers) that ignoring a completed binding arbitration isn't like negotiating a crew meal. It's a littlle more complicated than that and is beyond "an internal union dispute", of which the company lawyers are well aware of. We also know LOA 93 is here to stay (Parker was quite clear about that in the crew news), the company has no intentions of giving the east any sort of raise unless it is combined with a joint contract and that USAPers have done nothing in the past two and half years except move backwards in getting us a contract. Besides, the west doesn't need the Kirby, any contract gains go to the regional-salaried east pilots anyway. Plus, with the transition agreement the west has block hour protections for Phoenix. Angry FO Mission: FAILED.
So, we all just sit tight and watch the slow abandonment of the AFOs failed crusade while the east collects bankruptcy wages without any work rules. To review: No contact, LOA93 here to stay and the west continues its well funded legal pursuits against the world's sleaziest ambulance chaser.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Badge Backers

Some do on the West.

How come Mitch started to contribute so late and John Mac your former ALPA leaders?

How many pilots does the West have? The list seems short of the amount of West pilots.

Actually if you look at that list, suma you missed a name WEBBER, now where did the AOL get our mailing info? a conspiracy? conflict of interest? MM! ENRON OF THE AIRLINE INDUSTRY!

 

[oldiebutgoody]

You forgot me!
Look, it is obvious to all (except for the diehard USAPers) that ignoring a completed binding arbitration isn't like negotiating a crew meal. It's a littlle more complicated than that and is beyond "an internal union dispute", of which the company lawyers are well aware of. We also know LOA 93 is here to stay (Parker was quite clear about that in the crew news), the company has no intentions of giving the east any sort of raise unless it is combined with a joint contract and that USAPers have done nothing in the past two and half years except move backwards in getting us a contract. Besides, the west doesn't need the Kirby, any contract gains go to the regional-salaried east pilots anyway. Plus, with the transition agreement the west has block hour protections for Phoenix. Angry FO Mission: FAILED.
So, we all just sit tight and watch the slow abandonment of the AFOs failed crusade while the east collects bankruptcy wages without any work rules. To review: No contact, LOA93 here to stay and the west continues its well funded legal pursuits against the world's sleaziest ambulance chaser.

The voice of desperation.

I counted 987 names on that badge backer list. Maybe there are some realists over there after all.

BY the way, a lot of East guys will be getting raises either way, with upward movement in all areas.

SSM&P are kicking YOUR West you know whats!

 

[mikey60]

Does anybody have the decoder ring?

Yea it said.....the....nic...is...dead....accept...DOH...and...get..over..it....thanks....USAPA

 

[sumadarson]

Typical east behavior.You guys get information. But instead of learning from it you all instead worry about how it got to you. You guys can not avoid the truth your whole lives.

On here and other sites all I see is complaints that you are trying to be education. But no one has refuted the information.

What will we see from usapa? Some spin campaign telling you all don't look behind the curtain. That the information must be false because it is not what your leaders have been telling you and it sure does not comply with what the crew room rumors say.

Read and understand people. The truth will set you free.

How was the meeting with your legal counsel? How come your army of leonidas is coming up on a month, with no update? Why is there two web sites for the america west pilots? Rhetorical, your group is imploding in the world of PHX out and backs. Where is Johns contribution date?

America West Pilots web site one

How come the following web site shows an experienced pilot to the left of the less experienced pilot when your goal is the opposite?

AWAPPA west pilot web site no 2

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

You forgot me!
Look, it is obvious to all (except for the diehard USAPers) that ignoring a completed binding arbitration isn't like negotiating a crew meal. It's a littlle more complicated than that and is beyond "an internal union dispute", of which the company lawyers are well aware of. We also know LOA 93 is here to stay (Parker was quite clear about that in the crew news), the company has no intentions of giving the east any sort of raise unless it is combined with a joint contract and that USAPers have done nothing in the past two and half years except move backwards in getting us a contract. Besides, the west doesn't need the Kirby, any contract gains go to the regional-salaried east pilots anyway. Plus, with the transition agreement the west has block hour protections for Phoenix. Angry FO Mission: FAILED.
So, we all just sit tight and watch the slow abandonment of the AFOs failed crusade while the east collects bankruptcy wages without any work rules. To review: No contact, LOA93 here to stay and the west continues its well funded legal pursuits against the world's sleaziest ambulance chaser.

OH know we didn't(40-WATT CLUBBER YOU), LOA 93 here to stay, where'd ya get that rumor?, the HANGAR. To review ,okay no-contact(aviation term I guess ) Legal fund pursuits, okay great!, SEPERATE OPS! ENJOY THAT WEST ATTRITION! MM! PS pleez donate!http://www.alpa.org/portals/alpa/pressroom/pressreleases/2003/10-8-03_03.AWA4.htm

 

[FL430]

You forgot me!
Look, it is obvious to all (except for the diehard USAPers) that ignoring a completed binding arbitration isn't like negotiating a crew meal. It's a littlle more complicated than that and is beyond "an internal union dispute", of which the company lawyers are well aware of. We also know LOA 93 is here to stay (Parker was quite clear about that in the crew news), the company has no intentions of giving the east any sort of raise unless it is combined with a joint contract and that USAPers have done nothing in the past two and half years except move backwards in getting us a contract. Besides, the west doesn't need the Kirby, any contract gains go to the regional-salaried east pilots anyway. Plus, with the transition agreement the west has block hour protections for Phoenix. Angry FO Mission: FAILED.
So, we all just sit tight and watch the slow abandonment of the AFOs failed crusade while the east collects bankruptcy wages without any work rules. To review: No contact, LOA93 here to stay and the west continues its well funded legal pursuits against the world's sleaziest ambulance chaser.

You still dont have the Nic do you?

LOA 93 is OK with me - we on the east will get our raises through attrition. Personally i dont need a new contract as my other business more than makes up for it. If you want to gain in seniority earn it dont steal it.

And you like to critisize Seeham but didnt he say "NOT RIPE" in court to your esteemed Judge Wake way before any one else predicted the same outcome? You guys were gloating how Judge Wake wrote he book on law findings and federal law. "Not Ripe" was probably covered in LAW 101 and it seems incredulous to me he got something so simple so wrong. Same goes for your attorneys - what was Marty Harper and his team thinking? Oh yeah, they were thinking $$$$$$. Did you get your moneys worth?

Speaking of moneys worth - aren't you guys funding both sides of these legal wranglings? Paying dues money to USAPA funds one side while you write checks to Leonidas to get your coveted badge backers and fund the other side. Whoever heard of anyone doing that? And you guys think you are smart?

As far as our CEO; have you guys noticed a pattern of what he is saying in the last several crew news sessions? He is softening the inevitable hard landing you are about to experience - NO NIC. Hope it isnt a tailstrike for ya!

 

[FL430]

The voice of desperation.

I counted 987 names on that badge backer list. Maybe there are some realists over there after all.

BY the way, a lot of East guys will be getting raises either way, with upward movement in all areas.

SSM&P are kicking YOUR West you know whats!

987 out of what .....1700

INCREDIBLE!

And how about all the ones with only one or two stars - You guys are very supportive huh?

 

[sumadarson]

Arrogance of the west "leaders" disrespecting the intelligence of their viewers. Video of the America West Pilot narrow body, domestic route, PHX out and back wanna be a real pilot, angry first officer.

A, yeah, I want to be a mig video.

 

[sumadarson]

Arrogance of the west "leaders" disrespecting the intelligence of their viewers. Video of the America West Pilot narrow body, domestic route, PHX out and back wanna be a real pilot, angry first officer.

A, yeah, I want to be a mig video.

Chronology of a West pilot

Yeah, the Nic award

USAPA, never will happen

DFR

9th circuit court

Line up and wait for your PHX and LAS update

Line up and wait for your PHX update.

MESA airlines ground school.

 

[mikey60]

Chronology of a West pilot

Yeah, the Nic award

USAPA, never will happen

DFR

9th circuit court

Line up and wait for your PHX and LAS update

Line up and wait for your PHX update.

MESA airlines ground school.

and finally crewmember on the S.S.MINNOW

 

[AvgJoe]

Just noticed in PHL that the "Shut Down APU" sign on the jetways flashes now. How typical of our management, instead of fixing the problem and making sure ground air/power are always connected, we'll just make a flashing sign. Now all we need is a catchy slogan.

 

[sumadarson]

The life of the Usairways pilots is not made any easier due to the cowardice of ALPA and the United pilots. Look on their web site to the upper right and click on Notice to United Pilots. Two years later it is still there.

http://www.alpa.org/

 

[AWA320]

"NIC IS THE LIST oldie accept that and lets move on..."

- AWA320

Weather the Nic is the list or not is borderline moot at this point. Let's say for sake of argument that in six months (optimistic) the judge rules that the company must use the Nic and the company puts it's foot down with the union. Now the union drags it's feet in negotiation by quibbling and making scheduling difficult. Eventually the mediator threatens to release the company to self-help, at which point the union gives in and negotiates in good faith, and a TA is formed. TA is voted on, which takes a couple more months, and is voted down due not only to the Nic, but other poison pills agreed to by the union.

Question: How many years will this take?

In the end, attrition will render the Nic largely impotent.

Good point Avg Joe but here is what you are missing in a big way. First, the company is just fine with status quo on your pay scale. Hey if the east want to work for republic money then who am I to stand in their way? I say give'em all food stamps!!
Second for dragging out the process usapa will be sued again for not represnting the west by negotiating in good faith. I plan to bring the suit myself. Third just how long to you think the mid level capts will continue to allow the crazy 8's (angry f/o's club) to continue to hold them down?? There is zero in this for them so why should they give whats left of their careers to this losing effort? Now in all honesty I could care less if the east never got another raise. If they want to keep killing themselves I am all too happy to provide gun and bullets. The attrition train the people keep spoutin off about only serves the cry babies while the capts will continue to be paid 124/hr and then retire on 25k a year with PBGC. I am good with that and I hope they are too if you really expect to succeed.

AWA320

 

[AWA320]

But that is what you guys want right? To stretch out neg as long as possible. No Nicolau and separate ops. Well Parker is giving you just what you want. Separate ops, except that includes no contract. Die on LOA 93 boys and girls. You guys are getting exactly what you want. A union that told you that you would not have to live under the Nicolau. Best money you guys ever spent is what some of you say. To bad that means no contract. I believe judge Wake also said that during the trial.

You guys wanted separate ops you got it. Because of the east actions we are 2-4 probably closer to 5 years before we get a contract. Should I use a line from the east arbitration? The west is comfortable in our position. Other than a small raise and a little retirement money the next contract if usapa can pull it off will be a consession so why would we even want a contract neg by usapa? It will be less than what we have.

Get used to it. If DOH is in a contract the west will NEVER support a contract.


Since there is no data or evidence that a contract with the Nicolau will not pass other than the word of east pilot (and we all know what that is worth) we don't know if it would pass or not.

Beside the company DJ is all a waste of time right. You guys are going to get snap back. The company has to pay it because it is arbitration right. Then you guys are going to stall or walk away from the table because you got what you wanted right. Then we can watch as the east works to get the west parity. After 2.5 years usapa has failed to get the east parity. (Oh I guess just another item to throw on the failure pile of usapa)

I heard a great joke yesterday.

East pilots.

Everybody laughed.

Man nice points. BTW leave this trolls alone as they dont even understand the very basics. Try to enlighten them and its like playing in traffic. Contract law screams volumes and these idiots and talking about how to bring harm to a minority with majority. Thats how they got in this mess in the first place. NWA/DAL movin on, SWA/ Airtan movin on, Cal/Ual movin on, Spirit movin on USair stuck behind. They get all they deserve and will get just a little more very soon.

AWA320