US Pilots Labor Discussion

[SparrowHawk]

Thank you Doug Parker

Thanks Doug for transferring the East infection of furloughs and stagnation to West pilots.
Thanks Doug for pairing us up with people who don't have the hint of integrity.
Thanks Doug for not having any backbone to stand up to thugs trying to ruin your airline.

Thanks Doug for this mess of a merger.

Sounds like a Hell of a Guy!

Here's to DUI Doug
Here's to Smug Doug
Here's to Arrogant Doug

I wanna be just like him when I grow up! Of course I'll have to become a convict first.

 

[Missfit]

As a result, the West pilots have exchanged upgrades in less than 7 years (less than a year in the 80's) to the stagnation and furloughs today. There is a reason that many of us did not want to apply to the career stagnate airline US Air. My choices were SW and America West. Not the dying dinosaur who was way past it's prime. Besides I had no desire to be anywhere close to the East Coast.

Awww...you know there were guys on the East promised upgrades in 3-5 years...we know what happened there, things change.

Guess you should have applied to SWA, I think that's where all this pent up frustration is coming from...you blew it when you had the chance...heck you could be making twice what you're making now...at the very least.

How many years did you spend at Mesa before making the big leap?

 

[No Land Green]

I never applied to US Air. Instead, US Air applied at America West and like a fool, Doug hired em. As a result, the West pilots have exchanged upgrades in less than 7 years (less than a year in the 80's) to the stagnation and furloughs today. There is a reason that many of us did not want to apply to the career stagnate airline US Air. My choices were SW and America West. Not the dying dinosaur who was way past it's prime. Besides I had no desire to be anywhere close to the East Coast.

Our pilots flying at the time of the merger will not hand their upgrade or job to a furloughed pilot. That is the DOH scheme we will not allow on our property. Not now, not ever. We wil fight it with our without the help of Leonidas. Guaranteed.

Thank you Doug Parker

Thanks Doug for transferring the East infection of furloughs and stagnation to West pilots.
Thanks Doug for pairing us up with people who don't have the hint of integrity.
Thanks Doug for not having any backbone to stand up to thugs trying to ruin your airline.

Thanks Doug for this mess of a merger.

Not to worry, soon enough you will be rid of the East when this place fragments. We are very much looking forward to that day on the East.

Good luck in your next merger.

 

[end_of_alpa]

I never applied to US Air. Instead, US Air applied at America West and like a fool, Doug hired em. As a result, the West pilots have exchanged upgrades in less than 7 years (less than a year in the 80's) to the stagnation and furloughs today. There is a reason that many of us did not want to apply to the career stagnate airline US Air. My choices were SW and America West. Not the dying dinosaur who was way past it's prime. Besides I had no desire to be anywhere close to the East Coast.

Our pilots flying at the time of the merger will not hand their upgrade or job to a furloughed pilot. That is the DOH scheme we will not allow on our property. Not now, not ever. We wil fight it with our without the help of Leonidas. Guaranteed.

Thank you Doug Parker

Thanks Doug for transferring the East infection of furloughs and stagnation to West pilots.
Thanks Doug for pairing us up with people who don't have the hint of integrity.
Thanks Doug for not having any backbone to stand up to thugs trying to ruin your airline.

Thanks Doug for this mess of a merger.

Finally. You hit the nail on the head.....DOUG!

So how many more years of beating your heads against the wall until you see your blood?

PHX crew news is a good indication of your future.

Good luck.

 

[snapthis]

Awww...you know there were guys on the East promised upgrades in 3-5 years...we know what happened there, things change.

Guess you should have applied to SWA, I think that's where all this pent up frustration is coming from...you blew it when you had the chance...heck you could be making twice what you're making now...at the very least.

How many years did you spend at Mesa before making the big leap?

Umm, I don't think Mesa was around when I started flight training in '78.

Probably well before you were born, Missy.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Finally. You hit the nail on the head.....DOUG!


Good luck.

I agree with that, but I would add US too. Not the airline, but US east and west pilots. The way we set it up from the get go, with the dual ratification process, was flawed. It bit us all in the butt.

 

[Al Legheny]

Al,

If a snapshot were taken today, it would hightlight exactly why the Nic is fair and equitable. The problem you are having seeing it, is because you are still looking at it as though there are still two seperate companies, and that the east pilots are making gains on something that is theirs. Not true. The reason there is even any east attrition is a result of "the merger". I suppose same could be said of the West attrition. The reason there are any east coast markets is "because of the merger". The reason PHX is no longer profitable for the West is because of saddling the east higher cost on the West operation..i.e. "because of the merger".

So, we throw all the cost and gains into a one pile, and share them equitably, that is what Nic does. What you are suggesting is that we throw all the cost onto the West, put all the upside on the east, then take a snapshot, after east pilots have already stolen attrition that no longer even belongs to them "because of the merger", and have a redo today for an event that took place 6 years ago.

Everything Parker, Kirby, Isom, Nicolau, Wake, Bybee, Tashima, Graber, Silver, Lakefield, have said to date upholds my point of view. The east pilots have reaped a huge benefit from the merger at the West's pilots expense. The fact that West pilots are furloughed while east furloughed pilots have been employed since the merger makes me sick to my stomach, I don't care if Colello had 17 years or not, he stole Odell's job.

In the simplest terms, the West's expectation is that a final and binding seniority award will be honored. The West, nor the east, would have never entered into arbitration with the expectation that the award could simply be dismissed by popular vote.

The West has given up on the expectation that any player in this fiasco would actually have any integrity and honor their word. And, I am not just talking about the east pilots. The company has lied to the West from the get go, and they turn up the volume of the lies with every passing month. First it was, "no employed personel will be replaced with furloughees", then it was "third list???? what third list?", then "yeah. we ACCEPTED the list, but define ACCEPTED". Now it is just emboldened straight up lies that are the result of 6 years of lying to everybody about the situation in the first place.

Enjoy your fathers day, and try to remember the furloughed West guys who lost their jobs to benefit the employed East pilots.

Dude,

What are you smoking. You won a lottery ticket at East pilot expense and you see nothing wrong with throwing guys who now have over 23 years of service, that's one number seniority to Colello, Joe Monda, under the bus.


The reason PHX is no longer profitable for the West is because of saddling the east higher cost on the West operation..i.e. "because of the merger". Please explain....You have the same employee contract you have always had. How is your cost higher?

We saved the West.... When all is said and done and the smoke clears that truth shines thru. Momma, says that which don't kill you makes you stronger. She was right. The east almost died but after what we gave up, it just made those sacrifices have that much more impact. The East is carrying the West. The East is where the money is made.

You say that long ago management talked about what they thought was equitable in seniority integrations. You fail however in your posts to explain what management is saying now. The West is 30% to big. It is not profitable. The scheduling is a mess because the hub is a mess and the only thing that keeps PHX afloat in its present form is the transition agreement.

So when PHX sinks slowly into the West you want East pilots to pay for that...Dream on.

Oh' and even Wake said West furloughed pilots had no right to East jobs. Your lawyers didn't even show up to the arbitration to make that case to a neutral in count II of Addington.

Keep smoking that cactus dude....

 

[end_of_alpa]

I agree with that, but I would add US too. Not the airline, but US east and west pilots. The way we set it up from the get go, with the dual ratification process, was flawed. It bit us all in the butt.

What have I been telling everyone since the beginning of the MERGER: ALPA employed a flawed process that the company uses to it's advantage! It has driven a wedge....most likely an immovable wedge, that only with time and new blood will heal itself.

The question now is.....how long can us airways survive?

 

[luvthe9]

Sounds like a Hell of a Guy!

Here's to DUI Doug
Here's to Smug Doug
Here's to Arrogant Doug

I wanna be just like him when I grow up! Of course I'll have to become a convict first.

I think its safe to say Doug and company are finished in the airline industry. They are damaged goods and the laughing stock of the this industry.

 

[No Land Green]

The question now is.....how long can us airways survive?

Fragmentation. The "New US Airways" does not work with any other carrier in it's current format. The money guy knows this.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

What have I been telling everyone since the beginning of the MERGER: ALPA employed a flawed process that the company uses to it's advantage! It has driven a wedge....most likely an immovable wedge, that only with time and new blood will heal itself.

The question now is.....how long can us airways survive?

Northwest had a strike with solidarity in 98 I believe it was. I believe that shows that despite what goes down at one point in time, after a passage of time and certain events the pilot group as a whole can work together. I hope we survive long enough to see that happen. Not the strike necessarily, but at least the working together despite what's gone down in the past. It's gonna be awhile, no doubt.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Northwest had a strike with solidarity in 98 I believe it was. I believe that shows that despite what goes down at one point in time, after a passage of time and certain events the pilot group as a whole can work together. I hope we survive long enough to see that happen. Not the strike necessarily, but at least the working together despite what's gone down in the past. It's gonna be awhile, no doubt.

They merged with republic about ten years before....1986? So how many years from 1986 to 1998???

I'll go with that opinion.solidarity after merger...10-15 years give or take.

8-10 more years until a contract.

Good luck.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Dupe post. Sorry.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

They merged with republic about ten years before....1986? So how many years from 1986 to 1998???

I'll go with that opinion.solidarity after merger...10-15 years give or take.

8-10 more years until a contract.

Good luck.

Here is what I see, absent a merger. Our spat will work itself out, by hook or crook, and we'll end up with a lousy contract. We'll wake up with it one day, 'how the hell did that happen?' We are just to discombubulated to do anything but get that lousy contract out of the way. Whatever the list is will be part of that. We'll go from there.

Of course we could merge or die in the meantime. Or I could be off base. That's just what I see. Arguing the nitnoid of why we are on the track we are at the moment is a waste of time in my opinion. We all know the issues, despite differing takes on those issues. It is what it is, we'll slog through it. And hopefully there will be something on the other side for us.

For some strange reason I can't explain, I think the lousy contract and the culmination of our spat will be closely intertwined. And basically be one and the same thing.

 

[end_of_alpa]

Here is what I see, absent a merger. Our spat will work itself out, by hook or crook, and we'll end up with a lousy contract. We'll wake up with it one day, 'how the hell did that happen?' We are just to discombubulated to do anything but get that lousy contract out of the way. Whatever the list is will be part of that. We'll go from there.

Of course we could merge or die in the meantime. Or I could be off base. That's just what I see. Arguing the nitnoid of why we are on the track we are at the moment is a waste of time. We all know the issues, despite differing takes on those issues. It is what it is, we'll slog through it. And hopefully there will be something on the other side for us.

For some strange reason I can't explain, I think the lousy contract and the culmination of our spat will be closely intertwined. And basically be one and the same thing.

i wouldnt disagree with your accessment. We just don't know what the time frame will be.

Good luck.