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US Pilots Labor Discussion

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Who said it was in the transcripts.is everything he says transcribed?

If it is not in the transcripts when did he say it? In what context? You expect anyone to believe you that an arbitrator said this. We all know east pilot record for truthfulness. you will understand why I don't believe you.

Was this something only heard by loyal usapa supporters?

"IF YOU OWE THEM, YOU WILL PAY THEM..."

Tell you what. You give us the time, date, place and exact quote in context I will give you the benefit of the doubt otherwise just more east stories. You put it in quotes. Did you hear it yourself? If not hearsay means nothing. Let me guess you heard from a guy who knows a guy that talked to a guy that overheard Kasher say it at dinner.
 
I was hired at age 34, have worked for 3 airlines......3rd merger.

I have heard the story of the illbegotten AWA747. So, how did that work out for you? Anybody can buy an aircraft and put it in the air, but you have to be able to afford it's costs to operate it.

breeze

The west guys have not experienced much beyond the US borders, so their minds are closed.....they only believe in thier own experiences, which has it's limits.

What does that have to do with your incorrect theory that west pilot have not traveled outside the US?
 
I was hired at age 34, have worked for 3 airlines......3rd merger.

I have heard the story of the illbegotten AWA747. So, how did that work out for you? Anybody can buy an aircraft and put it in the air, but you have to be able to afford it's costs to operate it.

breeze


Like US did before AWA bought them out? You guys were in the hole with dirt being shoveled on top.

LOL

The 747's were stupid......kinda like Metrojet...which I seem to remember cost US a boatload of money when you tried to compete with SW. Nice job at BWI guys.... 😛
 
What does that have to do with your incorrect theory that west pilot have not traveled outside the US?

You are a fairly young pilot group.

You have never merged with another airline.

Except for one failed attempt to operate a 747, you have no Intl experience.

Again, I respect anyone who is trying to make a living in the cockpit. It's just a fact that you haven't "been there and done that" on a lot of levels. C'mon, you have always been a regional airline.....surely you can admit that.
 
I can hear your thoughts now....dog pile on breeze, since I am the only East pilot out here. Well, I am off to bed.

I sincerely wish the best to you guys and all of us.
 
You are a fairly young pilot group.

You have never merged with another airline.

Except for one failed attempt to operate a 747, you have no Intl experience.

Again, I respect anyone who is trying to make a living in the cockpit. It's just a fact that you haven't "been there and done that" on a lot of levels. C'mon, you have always been a regional airline.....surely you can admit that.
Are you under the false impression that this is our first rodeo? That the west pilots went from a 172 to AWA? You have no idea the experience and backgrounds of guys flying here. There are a lot of guys flying west metal that have been there and done that in every corner of the world flying very large stuff into very challenging airports.

Better get your head right and stop believing the east propaganda.
 
Are you under the false impression that this is our first rodeo? That the west pilots went from a 172 to AWA? You have no idea the experience and backgrounds of guys flying here. There are a lot of guys flying west metal that have been there and done that in every corner of the world flying very large stuff into very challenging airports.

Better get your head right and stop believing the east propaganda.

Ok, Clear,

Then prove it! Show us that there is more substance on the West than your narrow minded, lottrery ticket mentality. That seems to be as far as any of you want to take this problem, which reflects your inexperience.

breeze
 
Ok, Clear,

Then prove it! Show us that there is more substance on the West than your narrow minded, lottrery ticket mentality. That seems to be as far as any of you want to take this problem, which reflects your inexperience.

breeze
Lottery Ticket?

Binding Arbitration...look it up. Real men and women make agreements and live up to them. Too bad, you won't be able to staple the pilots from the company that saved your ass to the bottom, below your furloughees, from your "internationally (cough cough) experienced", world class airline. :lol: :lol:
 
Lottery Ticket?

Binding Arbitration...look it up. Real men and women make agreements and live up to them. Too bad, you won't be able to staple the pilots from the company that saved your ass to the bottom, below your furloughees, from your "internationally (cough cough) experienced", world class airline. :lol: :lol:

The NIC was a flawed from the beginning.

You have proven my point....You can't see beyond the NIC. That is the ONLY thing you have and the ONLY thing you are willing to discuss without threatening a lawsuit.
 
Ok, Clear,

Then prove it! Show us that there is more substance on the West than your narrow minded, lottrery ticket mentality. That seems to be as far as any of you want to take this problem, which reflects your inexperience.

breeze
Gee, with all the "experience" back East, how do you explain how your pilot group managed to not only get you LOA93 but keep you on it? You'd think with all your experience, that you'd be able to recognize when its better to cut your losses. Go around. Unstable.

Instead, you choose to keep the unrecoverable losses coming to your entire pilot group because in your vast experience you have forgotten what honor and integrity is by living up to your agreements. How experienced are your committee members? You know, the ones who were furloughed during the merger process. The ones who are riding the gravy train on FPL while you fly around for $85/hour.

The West sees the big picture here. It's the East who chooses to chase its tail and support a losing cause. Are you hoping to cash a lottery ticket by returning from furlough? How many years on property did you have before furlough? 1-2? 2.5?


USAPA = Still losing.
 
The NIC was a flawed from the beginning.

You have proven my point....You can't see beyond the NIC. That is the ONLY thing you have and the ONLY thing you are willing to discuss without threatening a lawsuit.
Flawed? Really? Explain.

Both MECs had ample time to hand over a certified seniority list. Did the East fail at that too? After all they are "experienced" in mergers right? How could that be so?

OR

Is the NIC flawed because it didnt meet your DOH expectations? You were warned by the Arbitrator that DOH was a non-starter. Should have heeded his warning. Experience would have taught you that.

Lawsuits are the only defense we have since our "union" only serves the downtrodden east minion.

USAPA = Blaming everyone but themselves.
 
I can hear your thoughts now....dog pile on breeze, since I am the only East pilot out here. Well, I am off to bed.

I sincerely wish the best to you guys and all of us.


So does that mean you support the NIC Award? Because that is exactly what George Nicolau did in his arbitration. He produced the best list he could, that would be in the best and most fair interests of the East and the West. Thanks.

USAPA screwed that up. How much money have you lost since the USAPA comandeered this property?


USAPA = Dog pile?
 
Lottery Ticket?

Binding Arbitration...look it up. Real men and women make agreements and live up to them. Too bad, you won't be able to staple the pilots from the company that saved your ass to the bottom, below your furloughees, from your "internationally (cough cough) experienced", world class airline. :lol: :lol:
Auh, so AWA bought AAA out of the kindness of their heart. Until now, I had thought it was a business deal.
 
luvthe9,

Look like I have to break out the Donny B. LOA 93 Pay Restoration documents again.

Here we go!

Enjoy!

As I stated earlier, the pay rates issue is not one of snapbacks. Therefore, it does not matter that Doug Mowery stated he didn't get snapbacks. Of course he didn't get snapbacks. Nowhere does it say "snapbacks". BTW, he has never said that to me and I have never seen any of his proposals indicating such. And, you know that his NC of those days (prior to DH) did not negotiate anyway. They merely accepted and carried the management written document that would become LOA93 back to the MEC and the pilots for a vote, but only after they were facing the debtors 1113 Motion and hearing in BK Court, and only after ALPA legal explained to the MEC the personal liability those gentlemen faced if they chose a different course of action.

The document is what it says. There is no disputing or getting around that. It is too late now for management to claim that they made a mistake with that provision. What legitimate claim can they make? Don't you think they have to make one? What would they say, "we never thought that 5 years of concessions was enough, that we always intended it to last into perpetuity"? I doubt that they even have financials for the post 2009 period of time. What could be their answer as to why the pay rates clause is the only provision that contains its own date; is written the way it is? Their lawyers knew how the amendable clause works under the RLA. Yet they wrote the provision the way they did nonetheless. You can rest assured that had that type of language been written by us to our detriment, management would insist that it was written that way for a reason and that it has full independent meaning. Meaningless words are not inserted into a contract by the brain dead. If it's there, it means something.

Again gentlemen, this is not a matter of a snapback. I wish we could take that word out of our lexicon here. This is a matter of an underlying document again having full force and effect because the explicit language of the overlying document has expired according to its own terms. It's as though the pay rates provision was rendered inoperative for a set period of time, then operative again.

Management wrote the pay rate clause, not Doug Mowery. They did it with a specific ending date and time. That is what a drafter does when he wants to indicate that a clause is not subject to the otherwise all encompassing "amendable clause".

I am not looking to create an argument or be disagreeable with you guys for no reason. But to let this lie is wrong. 5 years of industry basement pay rates is enough. That is what is in the LOA93 agreement, not more. Why don't you tell me why you think management wrote the pay rates clause so differently than all the rest. Then I could consider your thoughts and ideas, because as it stands, having them simply say "we didn't mean it" is not dispositive of the issue, and it is not legitimate contract law.

Regards,

Donn.


Hate
Thanks again Hate. What is in that document - is a lot of the use of the term FROZEN. And we all know how that term has been used in PAST PRACTICE which is a term the esteemed Mr. Kasher is abundantly clear with. Not the term SNAPBACK which is a total misnomer, and so much so that one strange poster on this board has adopted in error. Hopefully he will be tagged with this term and appear again when this is all over. Frozen carries a lot of meaning in our airline history. And when someone is FROZEN on a bid, they don t have to re negotiate, re bid or anything else. They go back to where they were after a period of time. Same as a FROZEN pay rate, with a DATE. Butkovic is dead on. And Parker never thought he had to deal with this. Well, the day is here. And, I am for insisting the West pilots get that pay immediately also, and we start from this point in joint negotiations. Parker will LOVE that.
 
And Parker never thought he had to deal with this. Well, the day is here. And, I am for insisting the West pilots get that pay immediately also, and we start from this point in joint negotiations. Parker will LOVE that.
So the YEAR 1/2 old arbitration has been decided ????
 
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