US Pilots Labor Discussion

[john john]

Jerry Glass is one of the most talented business men working today. In any industry. Instead of irrational fears of him, I suggest you all respect and embrace his presence. However minuscule his dealings with your airline are, count yourselves undeservingly fortunate to have him.

He is among the finest leaders of our time...a time where true leadership is non-existent.

Crony Capitalisms
And that talent is not cheep it cost a lot of money to get this spin out there
Are U on that pay roll
collusion among market players

 

[traderjake]

They will be decided shortly, and is an INTERNAL union dispute. Nothing more or less.

The courts, not you, will decide if the NIC has to be used to avoid harm to the West.

 

[luvthe9]

Reneging on a mutually agreed upon arbirtation is disgusting.

If you want to argue that the top 517 keep their DOH and you didn't, fine.

DOH is not the reason they are at the top of the NIC list, they were slotted there to protect the WB flying.

Disgusting? Your opinion. Legal? Absolutely!

 

[traderjake]

Disgusting? Your opinion. Legal? Absolutely!

We can never forget that everything Hitler did in Germany was "legal" and everything the Hungarian freedom fighters did in Hungary was "illegal."

1963 quote from Martin Luther King: Letter from Birmingham Jail.

 

[mrbreeze]

Jerry Glass is one of the most talented business men working today. In any industry. Instead of irrational fears of him, I suggest you all respect and embrace his presence. However minuscule his dealings with your airline are, count yourselves undeservingly fortunate to have him.

He is among the finest leaders of our time...a time where true leadership is non-existent.

LOL!!! Surely you're not serious! gawd!

 

[nevergiveup]

Reneging on a mutually agreed upon arbirtation is disgusting.

If you want to argue that the top 517 keep their DOH and you didn't, fine.

DOH is not the reason they are at the top of the NIC list, they were slotted there to protect the WB flying.

There were to be no windfalls. There were windfalls. Fix it! then we can talk.

 

[SparrowHawk]

LOL!!! Surely you're not serious! gawd!

Somebody has gotten into the Captain Morgan's instead of the Dr. Pepper a bit early

 

[cleardirect]

Redraw, not withdraw.

Answers:
yes
yes
yes
yes (legally)

Are you talking about fragmentation?
Changing the T/A and getting rid of the block hour mins?
Imposing a new contract?
Not living up to the arbitration if usapa wins the LOA 93?

I missed the redraw not withdraw.

Your question if LCC files bankruptcy because the east win Loa 93 snap back. I don’t think LCC will file for a couple reasons. I don’t think usapa is going to win. Second even if usapa did win it will be a couple years before LCC writes the first check. They will figure out a delay. Heck they could change the name of the company and say it does not apply. There is always the chance that usapa would negotiate something other than the full amount.

But for argument sake usapa wins LCC pays and declares BK.

If they ever wanted to emerge from BK they would need as much revenue and mass as possible it would not be a good idea to fragment the company leaving an east coast commuter airline with a few ratty WB flying to a couple international cities. So no I do not see fragmentation as a possibility during BK. Money people want to see revenue. You can generate more revenue with 320 airplane than you can with 200 airplane.

Reducing min block hours. Maybe. Usapa would have to be careful here that they do not cut the west and leave the east whole. Usapa has a responsibility to protect ALL LCC pilots not just those based on the east coast. Again PHX does bring something to the table.

Imposing a new contract possible under 1113 BK proceedings. We would have to see how usapa negotiated in BK. So far I have not been impressed by usapa. Would they refuse any consessions and burn the place to the ground? Would they give back like they did under ALPA?

Not living up to their agreement? Usapa is doing it why would east pilots expect someone else to live up to their agrements?

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

You all are airline historians. Interesting, but you only tell the story of why this is so screwed up. Kind of like studying the Civil War to figure out why we are where we are right now. The Nic was like something from those times, a proposal, like keeping slavery in certain states, and out of others in order to balance power. Are any of those decisions in force today? No, but they influenced things at that point in time. The Nic will NEVER stand. You read what the 9th said. Has it influenced anything now? Absolutely. But it has to be looked at in a historical context. An event that happened at a point in time, and influenced airline history. It took USAirways out of ALPA. It caused a historic rift in airline labor at same airline. Is it going to be something going forward? Absolutely not. Merely a blip on the way to another way of integrating these two groups. You can study Nicolau all you want. It is interesting, but it has no relevance going forward. All it did was divide two pilot groups, and take ALPA off the property. The fact ALPA was taken off the property will have more import than the internal battles we now have. They will be decided shortly, and is an INTERNAL union dispute. Nothing more or less.

I think the east's numerical advantage alone took alpa off the property. What if the two groups had been the same size? The divide would have still been there, but I bet we'd still be alpa. We would have slogged onward in JNC. We would have each still had our effective veto power via seperate ratification, but we would have been on equal footing in getting to the bottom of what ails us.

The only problem I've truly had with this mess is the east's insistence on having the upper hand, some how, some way. Somehow, at least so far, the upper hand doesn't look like all it's cracked up to be. Of course the story is not over yet.

 

[No Land Green]

an east coast commuter airline with a few ratty WB flying to a couple international cities.

Yep, and you can't wait to have access to it, LMAO!!!!!!!!

If you are furloughed I suggest you take a recall on the East. At least you will go with the fragmentation, LMAO!!!!!

 

[luvthe9]

Are you talking about fragmentation?
Changing the T/A and getting rid of the block hour mins?
Imposing a new contract?
Not living up to the arbitration if usapa wins the LOA 93?

I missed the redraw not withdraw.

Your question if LCC files bankruptcy because the east win Loa 93 snap back. I don’t think LCC will file for a couple reasons. I don’t think usapa is going to win. Second even if usapa did win it will be a couple years before LCC writes the first check. They will figure out a delay. Heck they could change the name of the company and say it does not apply. There is always the chance that usapa would negotiate something other than the full amount.

But for argument sake usapa wins LCC pays and declares BK.

If they ever wanted to emerge from BK they would need as much revenue and mass as possible it would not be a good idea to fragment the company leaving an east coast commuter airline with a few ratty WB flying to a couple international cities. So no I do not see fragmentation as a possibility during BK. Money people want to see revenue. You can generate more revenue with 320 airplane than you can with 200 airplane.

Reducing min block hours. Maybe. Usapa would have to be careful here that they do not cut the west and leave the east whole. Usapa has a responsibility to protect ALL LCC pilots not just those based on the east coast. Again PHX does bring something to the table.

Imposing a new contract possible under 1113 BK proceedings. We would have to see how usapa negotiated in BK. So far I have not been impressed by usapa. Would they refuse any consessions and burn the place to the ground? Would they give back like they did under ALPA?

Not living up to their agreement? Usapa is doing it why would east pilots expect someone else to live up to their agrements?

That is some ratty widebody, the A330-200. Seeing how the oldest started service last June, they are just ratted out. As Kasher said "IF YOU OWE THEM, YOU WILL PAY THEM..." Shows how little you know about arbitration in general. If they lose, they will pay, and on time. They junior west pilots have held their senior ones off the 330. All for the losing lottery ticket that they cannot figure out how to cash.

 

[cleardirect]

That is some ratty widebody, the A330-200. Seeing how the oldest started service last June, they are just ratted out. As Kasher said "IF YOU OWE THEM, YOU WILL PAY THEM..." Shows how little you know about arbitration in general. If they lose, they will pay, and on time. They junior west pilots have held their senior ones off the 330. All for the losing lottery ticket that they cannot figure out how to cash.

Kasher NEVER said that. Pull the transcripts yes PROOF! Show your cards or your are not telling the truth.

I think I have arbitration figured out just fine. Unlike you east guys that think arbitration means split the baby. LOA 93 is yes you get it or no you don't there is no splitting the baby here.

The only people keeping west pilot from 330 flying is east pilots. The only people keeping us from a contract are east pilots.

 

[No Land Green]

The only people keeping west pilot from 330 flying is east pilots. The only people keeping us from a contract are east pilots.

Really? Is this a fact?

 

[cleardirect]

Really? Is this a fact?

Fact!

 

[No Land Green]

Fact!

Do yourself a favor and take your recall on the East........