US Pilots Labor Discussion

[aquagreen73s]

$350 a month.


That's how much more the East pays than the West for equivalent health insurance for a family of four. The East premiums are up 11% this year. West is capped. It's only going to get worse fellas.

 

[aquagreen73s]

This is what a real contract does for you:

West Pilots:
Section 27.A.2 of west pilots' Contract 2004 permits the company to pass through a portion of annual increases in cost to
pilots. Company absorbs the first 5% in dollar increases and splits remainder with the pilot group. Since the increase in cost
was less than 5% over the past year, your insurance premiums for medical and dental will remain unchanged for 2012.

Yet the East gets jacked for another 11%. Ok BS and luvthe9, let's hear how great you got it under LOA93. I can use a good laugh after today's tragedy in Reno.

 

[Move2CLT]

$350 a month.


That's how much more the East pays than the West for equivalent health insurance for a family of four. The East premiums are up 11% this year. West is capped. It's only going to get worse fellas.

Ouch. 😱

 

[luvthe9]

This is what a real contract does for you:

West Pilots:
Section 27.A.2 of west pilots' Contract 2004 permits the company to pass through a portion of annual increases in cost to
pilots. Company absorbs the first 5% in dollar increases and splits remainder with the pilot group. Since the increase in cost
was less than 5% over the past year, your insurance premiums for medical and dental will remain unchanged for 2012.

Yet the East gets jacked for another 11%. Ok BS and luvthe9, let's hear how great you got it under LOA93. I can use a good laugh after today's tragedy in Reno.

I 'm happy for you guys, our ALPA leadership gave away the everything and a lot of people were dumb enough to vote for it. We own that one, we have told you before that LOA93 sucks . Doug Mowery really screwed things up for this pilot group.

 

[Black Swan]

This is what a real contract does for you:

West Pilots:
Section 27.A.2 of west pilots' Contract 2004 permits the company to pass through a portion of annual increases in cost to
pilots. Company absorbs the first 5% in dollar increases and splits remainder with the pilot group. Since the increase in cost
was less than 5% over the past year, your insurance premiums for medical and dental will remain unchanged for 2012.

Yet the East gets jacked for another 11%. Ok BS and luvthe9, let's hear how great you got it under LOA93. I can use a good laugh after today's tragedy in Reno.

Yes, Aqua. That was LOA 93 that had a lot of this, and prior ALPA concessions. AN ALPA AGREEMENT! Which I voted NO on. So this has nothing to do with USAPA, , and EVERYTHING to do with why we smoked ALPA off the property. The Nic was the final straw. So, actually, LOA 93 saved us from the Nic. So if there is a silver lining to this fiasco, it will be Kasher banging the company shortly, and the fact we got ALPA off our backs forever. Lets' have a little review, Addington, ERASED, Injunction, Injunction?????? Silver??? and the bottom line, you paid to have the 9th make it perfectly clear the Nic is not required anymore. Also, where is your damage if we pay more??? You make a lot of empty promises Aqua, and you have yet to deliver. You have no damage. If anything, you make that case all the time. Here is some interesting refresher from Bill Wilder. We know you like to ignore it, but it is very interesting reading for those who want facts without the Leonidas spin, and by the way, the 9th said the same thing! Enjoy! 😀



"While the judge correctly concluded that USAPA is the successor to ALPA’s collective bargaining agreement, that in no way restricts USAPA from negotiating any and all terms of that agreement, including the Nicolau Award. The judge nowhere considers precedent, such as Association of Flight Attendants v. United Airlines and Association of Flight Attendants v. US Airways, which hold that a predecessor union’s collective bargaining agreement provides only the beginning point for a successor union’s negotiations and the successor is free to negotiate changes to the agreement. To do otherwise would perpetuate the rejected union as representative.

The court also wrongly held that USAPA is bound by the Nicolau Award as the product of ALPA Merger Policy. ALPA Merger Policy is only an internal union procedure. It is not part of the collective bargaining agreement with US Airways (even if it was, USAPA could still negotiate changes to it.) USAPA cannot be bound to ALPA Merger Policy since it is not ALPA, and only ALPA’s subordinate bodies, the Master Executive Councils (which, admittedly, are not real labor organizations) are bound to follow the Merger Policy. The Merger Policy has no standing under the Railway Labor Act and since USAPA’s successor obligations only exist under the RLA, they cannot include ALPA Merger Policy."

 

[Res Judicata]

Yes, Aqua. That was LOA 93 that had a lot of this, and prior ALPA concessions. AN ALPA AGREEMENT! Which I voted NO on. So this has nothing to do with USAPA, , and EVERYTHING to do with why we smoked ALPA off the property. The Nic was the final straw. So, actually, LOA 93 saved us from the Nic. So if there is a silver lining to this fiasco, it will be Kasher banging the company shortly, and the fact we got ALPA off our backs forever. Lets' have a little review, Addington, ERASED, Injunction, Injunction?????? Silver??? and the bottom line, you paid to have the 9th make it perfectly clear the Nic is not required anymore. Also, where is your damage if we pay more??? You make a lot of empty promises Aqua, and you have yet to deliver. You have no damage. If anything, you make that case all the time. Here is some interesting refresher from Bill Wilder. We know you like to ignore it, but it is very interesting reading for those who want facts without the Leonidas spin, and by the way, the 9th said the same thing! Enjoy! 😀



"While the judge correctly concluded that USAPA is the successor to ALPA’s collective bargaining agreement, that in no way restricts USAPA from negotiating any and all terms of that agreement, including the Nicolau Award. The judge nowhere considers precedent, such as Association of Flight Attendants v. United Airlines and Association of Flight Attendants v. US Airways, which hold that a predecessor union’s collective bargaining agreement provides only the beginning point for a successor union’s negotiations and the successor is free to negotiate changes to the agreement. To do otherwise would perpetuate the rejected union as representative.

The court also wrongly held that USAPA is bound by the Nicolau Award as the product of ALPA Merger Policy. ALPA Merger Policy is only an internal union procedure. It is not part of the collective bargaining agreement with US Airways (even if it was, USAPA could still negotiate changes to it.) USAPA cannot be bound to ALPA Merger Policy since it is not ALPA, and only ALPA’s subordinate bodies, the Master Executive Councils (which, admittedly, are not real labor organizations) are bound to follow the Merger Policy. The Merger Policy has no standing under the Railway Labor Act and since USAPA’s successor obligations only exist under the RLA, they cannot include ALPA Merger Policy."

Maybe you should have hired Wilder instead of the most incompetent POS ambulance chaser in the business. We have been telling you for years $eham was robbing you blind. Now, even Cleary gets it. Bottom line. USAPA owes a DFR to the West and any "proposals" that are birthed by the East onto the West will be measured against the Nic. award and WILL require the majority of the West to agree with the change. IOW, that's never going to happen. So, LOA93 for life or the Nic. Do what you want, I don't have to live your miserable life.

 

[Black Swan]

One more item Aqua: How do you explain away the term FROZEN as it stands in the LOA 93 language regarding pay restoration on Dec 31 2009? How do you explain to Kasher, if you are the company, that the term FROZEN is used in a very specific way throughout the pilots labor agreement, and has a very specific definition, then come out and say it means it is a starting point to NEGOTIATE? How do you explain the fact EVERY OTHER ITEM other than pay had no date, and no reference of being FROZEN in LOA 93? Kasher is a smart man, very smart. He is going to seize on that issue and render a favorable decision to the East. Done deal. It was put in there for a very specific reason, as a fallback to protect the pilots from EXACTLY what you and the company are trying to do right now, and we are going to prevail. And when that happens? Your Leonidas is going to fold like a deck chair, because you just lost every East pilot immediately that you thought you could sway. It will be devastating.

 

[Res Judicata]

One more item Aqua: How do you explain away the term FROZEN as it stands in the LOA 93 language regarding pay restoration on Dec 31 2009? How do you explain to Kasher, if you are the company, that the term FROZEN is used in a very specific way throughout the pilots labor agreement, and has a very specific definition, then come out and say it means it is a starting point to NEGOTIATE? How do you explain the fact EVERY OTHER ITEM other than pay had no date, and no reference of being FROZEN in LOA 93? Kasher is a smart man, very smart. He is going to seize on that issue and render a favorable decision to the East. Done deal. It was put in there for a very specific reason, as a fallback to protect the pilots from EXACTLY what you and the company are trying to do right now, and we are going to prevail. And when that happens? Your Leonidas is going to fold like a deck chair, because you just lost every East pilot immediately that you thought you could sway. It will be devastating.

Holy S***. You better line up your own suicide watch now. You've set yourself up for an epic fall. Even if you "win" you lose. Get it?

 

[Black Swan]

Maybe you should have hired Wilder instead of the most incompetent POS ambulance chaser in the business. We have been telling you for years $eham was robbing you blind. Now, even Cleary gets it. Bottom line. USAPA owes a DFR to the West and any "proposals" that are birthed by the East onto the West will be measured against the Nic. award and WILL require the majority of the West to agree with the change. IOW, that's never going to happen. So, LOA93 for life or the Nic. Do what you want, I don't have to live your miserable life.

Seham knew exactly what was going on with Wake. It was all about the appeal to the 9th. Aqua must have actually been stunned knowing what a can of worms Wake waded into carrying Bobby Baldocks' daddys favor that far! The classic was when Wake was thinking about imposing Nicolau! When he got told the NMB was going to parachute into his court, he about crapped himself! Read what Wilder said about Wake, that was a trial turned into a circus. Seham knew Wake was so far off the rails, he was going to give you guys the win, after all, he knew all your inner circle. It was all about setting Wake and Leonidas up to get teed off like a golf ball courtesy of the 9th. Seham got Wake to set himself up for the 9th, And damn, did they ever take Wakes' pants down! Wake was so stupid he ignored the fact the 9th was going to be just laying to spank all over him. What an imbecile. We will get the Kasher win shortly. That will make it all worth it.

 

[Black Swan]

Holy S***. You better line up your own suicide watch now. You've set yourself up for an epic fall. Even if you "win" you lose. Get it?

Always the Leonidas spin. We win, we win. Parker will pay up, that is a fact.

 

[Res Judicata]

Always the Leonidas spin. We win, we win. Parker will pay up, that is a fact.

Wanna bet?

 

[BoeingBoy]

How do you explain to Kasher, if you are the company, that the term FROZEN is used in a very specific way throughout the pilots labor agreement, and has a very specific definition

Why don't you list the instances of freeze or frozen in the CBA and tell us how they share the same "very specific definition"...

I can think of two other uses of those terms - training freezes and the Shuttle retirement plan that was frozen. The first is the most applicible because it has an end specified but doesn't have the frozen pilot automatically revert to the position held before the freeze was applied and the second never reverted since the Shuttle pilots moved to the US pension.

Jim

 

[Res Judicata]

Seham knew exactly what was going on with Wake. It was all about the appeal to the 9th. Aqua must have actually been stunned knowing what a can of worms Wake waded into carrying Bobby Baldocks' daddys favor that far! The classic was when Wake was thinking about imposing Nicolau! When he got told the NMB was going to parachute into his court, he about crapped himself! Read what Wilder said about Wake, that was a trial turned into a circus. Seham knew Wake was so far off the rails, he was going to give you guys the win, after all, he knew all your inner circle. It was all about setting Wake and Leonidas up to get teed off like a golf ball courtesy of the 9th. Seham got Wake to set himself up for the 9th, And damn, did they ever take Wakes' pants down! Wake was so stupid he ignored the fact the 9th was going to be just laying to spank all over him. What an imbecile. We will get the Kasher win shortly. That will make it all worth it.

$eham Milked you Idiot$ out of Million$!!!


In accordance with the USAPA Constitution and By Laws, there will be a special telephonic meeting of the Board of Pilot Representatives to commence at 1500 on Tuesday September 20, 2011.

The agenda will be:

* Consideration and approval of a process and firm to independently audit USAPA's legal bills.

USAPA Communications

You were warned over and over...I guess you can't fix stupid.

 

[Black Swan]

Why don't you list the instances of freeze or frozen in the CBA and tell us how they share the same "very specific definition"...

I can think of two other uses of those terms - training freezes and the Shuttle retirement plan that was frozen. The first is the most applicible because it has an end specified but doesn't have the frozen pilot automatically revert to the position held before the freeze was applied and the second never reverted since the Shuttle pilots moved to the US pension.

Jim

Captain Doom, there is a huge difference between a freeze with a date on it, like the one we are talking about, and a freeze in a distressed retirement. You can try and spin this any way you want, but anyone sensible and that has experience knows you are barking at the moon at this stretch. Read the Kasher questions on this, he was very interested in the way freeze was used in our CONTRACT, not RETIREMENT PLAN.Did anyone say the Shuttle Plan was frozen to a date? NO.Was it given a FOLLOW UP PLAN? YES. So there was the addressment of the freeze. Stopped permanently, with a follow up plan,a DC. The fact a DC plan was added was a clear acknowledgement that the retirement plan as it was, was over, FROZEN permanently,not TERMINATED as was the East plan, and REPLACED with a DC.So their B plan was frozen and then augmented. Not terminated. Very clear end and resolution made. Did the shuttle retirement have a resume date? NO. Did the LOA 93 pay have a date, HELL YES. There is your difference. Kasher made no mention of any retirement plan, only the way FREEZE was historically used in our contract provisions, which this LOA was directly a contractual item, not a BENEFIT item. Get it? If you try and make the case the East pay was FROZEN like the Shuttle retirement was, then you are trying to make the case the pay was FOREVER FROZEN, because that is what happened to the Shuttle Retirement. Only you would believe that , and the idiot Leonidas Team.Besides, what does the Shuttle Retirement have to do with LOA 93 anyway? At least Kasher is sensible enough, unlike you, to understand their is a world of difference between a frozen pension, and the absolutely idiotic try to make the case the East pilots pay was frozen permanently in the same context as a distressed pension. You completely ignore the date of Dec 31 2009. If it meant nothing, why was it there? You cannot obfuscate that fact any way you try. Prepare yourself and your paritsans for some bad news, because it is coming to a theatre near you!

 

[Black Swan]

$eham Milked you Idiot$ out of Million$!!!


In accordance with the USAPA Constitution and By Laws, there will be a special telephonic meeting of the Board of Pilot Representatives to commence at 1500 on Tuesday September 20, 2011.

The agenda will be:

* Consideration and approval of a process and firm to independently audit USAPA's legal bills.

USAPA Communications

You were warned over and over...I guess you can't fix stupid.

You are correct in that Seham does play fast and loose with his billing. Bottom line is this: he is a hired gun, not a saint. He took a shot in the Wake Courtroom and did what he was paid to do, kill Wake and Leonidas. He thouroughly accomplished that mission. Leonidas on the other hand, under Aqua, spent 2 million on an unripe case, and paved the way for the 9th to back in concrete the Nic was not the only way. Seham in the courtroom against Leonidas? Priceless. Next hired guns? O Dwyer Team Seven. The final battle.