US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Metroyet]

Busy BPR meeting. You know...the usual. They fired the ONLY West p2p rep. and promised to file another lawsuit against AOL for sending a pamphlet.


Good Work Dear Leader!!! Very productive!! Meanwhile, you're constituents qualify for food stamps with no end EVER in sight.

 

[LSS]

You still have not got it straight.

My upgrade happened much faster than I expected, even though nobody promised me anything in my new hire class. As a matter of fact, I upgraded quickly enough, that I have nearly as many and possibly more years as a captain, than some of the furloughees, who would like to be senior to me, have in total length of service. My total lenght of service far exceeds many of the furloughed who are trying to steal my position. Recently flew with a 1989 usair hire who was hired at AWA in 2003. His total pre-merger length of service, including his two years at AWA pre-merger, did not add up to the years I have been in the left seat.

I have been in the airline bussiness for some time now. Probably know more about it than you or your husband, and find your statement about sticking around both ignorant and condescending.

You do have one thing right. The West most certainly does feel entitled. We are entitled to have the contracts and agreements we have entered into upheld, not simply dismissed because a bunch of disgruntled, formerly unemployed, malcontents, think they can steal our positions and status, on the advice of a little lawyer who told them they could by changing their names. So we will tell anyone who is willing to listen, and so far that has worked pretty well.

We certainly have the ear of the company and the federal court system.

In the end, the east pilots are not paying for the West's careers, but they are definitely running the risk of paying monetary damages they have cause to those same West pilots earnings.

Your demanded entitlement is a 17 year (never furloughed) East pilot leap-frogged by a 6 year West pilot... Arbitration/abomination! And all sections of the contract are still in negotiations (yes that means Section 22 as well)! There is no actual seniority list (ONLY A PROPOSED LIST) until a contract has been 1) negotiated and 2) RATIFIED! I really hope you're not holding your breath!

 

[nic4us]

Busy BPR meeting. You know...the usual. They fired the ONLY West p2p rep. and promised to file another lawsuit against AOL for sending a pamphlet.

Great, maybe this time they will file in a state court, where we can go after the scumbags for a SLAP suit.

Or, better yet, they file in federal court, and we see about sending some of the dual-unionist to the big house, for their improper appropriations of the West pilot's personal info prior to their certification as the bargaining agent. I think they stole it from ALPA, what do you think?

NAW...that is all way over the top...we will just counter sue them for violating the LMRDA rights of a group exploring replacing the bargaining agent.

I wonder if EYE uses court summons as kitty litter, and if they are absorbent enough to make the cat dung stick.

 

[hp_fa]

They fired the ONLY West p2p rep. and promised to file another lawsuit against AOL for sending a pamphlet.

What is p2p?

 

[nic4us]

Your demanded entitlement is a 17 year (never furloughed) East pilot leap-frogged by a 6 year West pilot... Arbitration/abomination! And all sections of the contract are still in negotiations (yes that means Section 22 as well)! There is no actual seniority list (ONLY A PROPOSED LIST) until a contract has been 1) negotiated and 2) RATIFIED! I really hope you're not holding your breath!

That is certainly what the little union busting lawyer would like you to believe.

However, that 6 year West pilot had more status, rank, expectation and pay than the 17 year next to be unemployed east pilot.

Seniority is not still in negotiations. That negotiation was concluded with the publication of the Nicolau award, as mandated by th TA, as a prerequisite condition of the changes to our respective contracts, which in effect, even allowed the merger to take place.

Not holding my breath, I breathed a sigh of releif the day Nic published his award. That was the end of the east ever getting DOH at LCC. It did help that Prater finaly delivered the list, and LCC made an official acceptance of the only list that will ever be used at LCC.

 

[Pi brat]

You still have not got it straight.

My upgrade happened much faster than I expected, even though nobody promised me anything in my new hire class. As a matter of fact, I upgraded quickly enough, that I have nearly as many and possibly more years as a captain, than some of the furloughees, who would like to be senior to me, have in total length of service. My total lenght of service far exceeds many of the furloughed who are trying to steal my position. Recently flew with a 1989 usair hire who was hired at AWA in 2003. His total pre-merger length of service, including his two years at AWA pre-merger, did not add up to the years I have been in the left seat.

I have been in the airline bussiness for some time now. Probably know more about it than you or your husband, and find your statement about sticking around both ignorant and condescending.

You do have one thing right. The West most certainly does feel entitled. We are entitled to have the contracts and agreements we have entered into upheld, not simply dismissed because a bunch of disgruntled, formerly unemployed, malcontents, think they can steal our positions and status, on the advice of a little lawyer who told them they could by changing their names. So we will tell anyone who is willing to listen, and so far that has worked pretty well.

We certainly have the ear of the company and the federal court system.

In the end, the east pilots are not paying for the West's careers, but they are definitely running the risk of paying monetary damages they have cause to those same West pilots earnings.

Kind of stings when you think about it, doesn't it? Even though you don't think they are good enough or can even be made good enough, USAPA does at least have some C&Rs to protect your seat. Not so with the Nic. I've been a capt. for 7 of my 24 years and am a capt now. I also flew F/o 76I. The west guys slotted in front of me on the Nic have never been captains, but he allowed them to take my seat from now on.

 

[Pi brat]

What is p2p?

Pilot to pilot. They wear a special lanyard and kind of have the inside scoop so pilots that see them on the line ask questions and pass on ideas.

 

[Metroyet]

Your demanded entitlement is a 17 year (never furloughed) East pilot leap-frogged by a 6 year West pilot... Arbitration/abomination! And all sections of the contract are still in negotiations (yes that means Section 22 as well)! There is no actual seniority list (ONLY A PROPOSED LIST) until a contract has been 1) negotiated and 2) RATIFIED! I really hope you're not holding your breath!

You should have quit. It's not like there wasn't ample warning that us air was not a safe place to trust your career. Too bad you chose to stay. You're problem. Not the fault of pilots of a different airline on the opposite side of the country.

Ratification is a meaningless, useless detail. It has no bearing on legalities and USAPA'S total failure to represent the West.

 

[Ames]

Right...Let me get this straight....The west doesn't want to have to pay for East pilots careers, on the other hand it's perfectly acceptable for said East pilots that have put in years of service, not even talking about DOH, to pay for the West's careers.

I'm sorry if your promised upgrade doesn't happen as quickly as they said it would in your hire class, Stick with the airline business long enough and you'll realize that it usually happens that way. The promised land is always delayed, the East knows this and has put in those years. You on the West feel so entitled that you don't care who you step on because gosh darn it you deserve it and you'll tell anyone that will listen.

Get the facts, mam, get the facts. If you will, once you do get the facts please provide even ONE example of the east pilots paying for west careers. As I told you in a previous post I am already a captain who would be placed junior to hundreds of previously furloughed easties. Looks more like me paying the tab for those that didn't even bring a job into this terribly toxic mix.

If you really are an eastie's wife, how's the weather there in Stepford?

 

[Ames]

Missfit,
You need to look at the Westies like a toddler having a temper tantrum. Right now, they are in the screaming mode trying to be heard. As you know the basic points of tantrums are:

Emotional Immaturity
Emotional Insecurity
Stress
Selfishness

I don't think it's much longer before they're on the floor wallowing around 'seizure-like' or doing the deadbug because ANOTHER judge told them the Nicolau lollipops are illegal and just bad for them.

Wah- Wah...

Later,
Eye

This is a very good example of the east's behavior since the final and binding arbitration concluded.

 

[Ames]

Kind of stings when you think about it, doesn't it? Even though you don't think they are good enough or can even be made good enough, USAPA does at least have some C&Rs to protect your seat. Not so with the Nic. I've been a capt. for 7 of my 24 years and am a capt now. I also flew F/o 76I. The west guys slotted in front of me on the Nic have never been captains, but he allowed them to take my seat from now on.

You are a captain now but what was your status in Sept 05, when the acquisition was consummated. My guess is that you weren't and that your relative seniority is within 2% of what it was, most likely more to your advantage.

 

[Ames]

I'm waiting for $eham or Granath to explain, face-to-face, to Judge Silver how final and binding means it is just a negotiating position.

Me too. A photo of the expression on her face would be priceless.

 

[767jetz]

You on the West feel so entitled that you don't care who you step on because gosh darn it you deserve it and you'll tell anyone that will listen.

More irony. One problem with your theory... entitlement usually has to do with a persons sense that they deserve something they do not already have. That would be the east pilots, in the form of jobs they did not have but dearly want at all cost. The west do not have a sense of entitlement. They already possessed the jobs in question. That's not entitlement. That's reality. The east pilots on the other hand are free to keep their furloughed positions and junior f/o positions that would never get to captain in their lifetime.

 

[767jetz]

IMHO we need to get away from judging our careers based on management's actions. With this in mind I believe DOH is more appropriate than LOS. The pilots that were furloughed all of those years had worked hard to obtain "the brass ring" and get hired at a major carrier. The fact that management was inept and eventually furloughed them is not their fault. The same argument applies to "who bought whom", and "our airline was in better shape". None of these things have anything to do with the pilots. We may never achieve a nationwide seniority list in this country, but DOH comes as close to a merit-based (read experience-based) career progression as we can come in this industry.

Sorry, but that idea would never float without a national seniority list. Which you have pointed out does not exist. If it did, then a 5 year pilot would make "x" $, a 10 year pilot "y" and so on, regardless of airline, seat, fleet, etc. It would also require standardized work rules and contracts throughout the industry. This is simply fantasy land in the world we live in.

 

[luvn737s]

Why is AOL screwing over the 24 AWA guys on LTD. If I were one tof those 24 I would be very pissed at AOL. Do they know USAPA is trying to keep their benefits going and Diddo or Dotto or what ever his name is won't help Tracy. I love watching AOL screw over it's own. P.S. your already gone!!!

Your beloved USAPA and all the east pilots voted to do away with the west's Age 58 bypass when it had nothing to do with them. Tell me again who is screwing pilots with respect to age 60-65 issues? USAPA took the brass ring out the hand of age 60 pilots to sit at the top of the F/O bidding list and make captain pay for 5 years (99 hours versus the 78 or so they might make as a reserve CA [roughly $50000 all totaled]). And what did they get in return for it:




That's right, nothing.