US Pilots Labor Discussion

[AWA320]

AQUA- you need to re read the difference between an internal union negotiating position/proposal and binding arbitration between an employer and a labor organization that signed an agreement with same. There is a big difference. The most significant area you should concentrate is reading about how a new representative body is not bound by the position of the former.

This is the biggest crock I have every heard. Change the name and we all start a ground zero. Why not do this and change our current contract? Change the name and we all no longer have to abide by past rules. Change the name and we no longer have to worry about being sued.

The sad part is once you figure out that usapa has lied to you AGAIN you going to be upset, then once you figured out that you have lied to yourself you going to be really upset. Hoping, wishing and lying to one's self does NOT make it come true, if it did we all would be lottery winners.

AWA320

 

[N924PS]

Lets narrow it down to immoral and illegal activities by a pilot, you first.

Here's one Nostro:

http://www.wtsp.com/news/national/story.aspx?storyid=138480

 

[Ames]

Clear,

I agree the MDA case is not ripe because the damages to the MDA pilots would only accrue if the Nicolau list were to be actually implemented. ALPA knew the MDA pilots were active mainline. The MDA suit alleges that ALPA is guilty of a DFR against the MDA pilots for knowingly allowing a false uncertified list to be used changing their status from working mainline to furloughed. The 175 million is the calculated transfer of earnings from MDA pilots to West pilots if the MDA pilots are eventually damaged by ALPA's DFR violation which resulted in the Nicolau list.

The only "certified" East list was produced by the East merger committee and showed the MDA pilots as working mainline. The statement you posted showing the opposite is false. It simply proves the scheme to introduce the fraudulent list was successful.

We already know that Nicolau was confused about the status of the MDA pilots and about which list was the valid list. That is what can happen when knowingly false information is given to a judge and he assumes it to be true. Garbage in garbage out.

The only thing USAPA can do to fulfill their DFR obligations to all pilots is to prevent the fraudulently derived Nicolau list from being used and causing damage.

underpants

Yet ANOTHER absolute and unmitigated LIE.

 

[Ames]

You need to understand this a little better, and have a little empathy for what happened to these guys. The East MEC was practically in bed with the company on numerous issues, this being one of them. It isn't going to get glossed over just because you can't get a grasp on it.

If that's the case why in hell didn't you recall the MEC? You guys are all too quick to place blame on those who can no longer defend themselves yet accept NO responsibility for your own inaction.

 

[Bear96]

AQUA- you need to re read the difference between an internal union negotiating position/proposal and binding arbitration between an employer and a labor organization that signed an agreement with same. There is a big difference. The most significant area you should concentrate is reading about how a new representative body is not bound by the position of the former.

You are confusing position of the former with outcome of the binding arbitration. Once something moves from mere "position" to completed arbitration, things change. Kinda like in litigation, the parties are free to settle on their own terms until the judge or jury announces its verdict. After that, the side that did not like the verdict cannot insist that the other side keep negotiating for a settlement. The time to do that was before the verdict.

Or could you post a link supporting the proposition that a new representative body is not bound by the outcome of prior binding arbitration and is free to ignore it (absent special or unusual circumstances that would not apply here)?

 

[Code Name V]

Really? Money well spent as you are still miles away from DOH, and your time is ticking. Time is something that I and most West pilots have a lot more of than you fellows on the East. Keep wasting it - I've got a lot more of it than you.

How's the pension investigation working out? How's three and half years and counting on LOA 93 working out for you? And finally: how many jury verdicts in you favor? Keep whistling past the graveyard pal.

That's funny. From where I sit we had/have/and will have DOH; just like you do, so if time is on your side, then you won't mind just staying right where you are indefinitely while we 'waste away' with nothing but the attrition from our DOH that is still 'miles' away...

V

 

[jetjok1]

Lets narrow it down to immoral and illegal activities by a pilot, you first.

You know, this is headed in a childish, boring direction. Why don't we talk about what's really important instead of garbage dumping and trying to throw mankind under the bus. We, East and West, have an equal share of Bozos, scabs and the like. But 99% of the pilots, EAST AND WEST, are standup people that I would fly with, put my family in their trust, and would have their back when needed. Let's move on folks...... Let's try and get along.....I beg you!

 

[Freighterguynow]

How? By clicking your heels together and wishing it to be true while another three years plus under bankruptcy wages pass by?

Even if it takes a decade.

Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings, Inc. Fails To Reach Contract With Pilots
Tuesday, 14 Sep 2010 12:44pm EDT

The International Brotherhood of Teamsters' Airline Division announced that negotiations with Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings, Inc. (AAWW), the holding company of Atlas Air Inc. and Polar Air Cargo Worldwide, have ended without a collective bargaining agreement.


On July 25, 2001, Atlas and Polar advised the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) that they had entered into an agreement whereby AAWW would acquire all of the outstanding stock of Polar.

 

[CV580ETOPS]

You know, this is headed in a childish, boring direction. Why don't we talk about what's really important instead of garbage dumping and trying to throw mankind under the bus. We, East and West, have an equal share of Bozos, scabs and the like. But 99% of the pilots, EAST AND WEST, are standup people that I would fly with, put my family in their trust, and would have their back when needed. Let's move on folks...... Let's try and get along.....I beg you!

Not me ..... glad I have access to OAL passes.

cv

 

[CV580ETOPS]

You know, this is headed in a childish, boring direction. Why don't we talk about what's really important instead of garbage dumping and trying to throw mankind under the bus. We, East and West, have an equal share of Bozos, scabs and the like. But 99% of the pilots, EAST AND WEST, are standup people that I would fly with, put my family in their trust, and would have their back when needed. Let's move on folks...... Let's try and get along.....I beg you!

Not me ..... glad I have access to OAL passes.

cv

 

[cleardirect]

Even if it takes a decade.

Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings, Inc. Fails To Reach Contract With Pilots
Tuesday, 14 Sep 2010 12:44pm EDT

The International Brotherhood of Teamsters' Airline Division announced that negotiations with Atlas Air Worldwide Holdings, Inc. (AAWW), the holding company of Atlas Air Inc. and Polar Air Cargo Worldwide, have ended without a collective bargaining agreement.


On July 25, 2001, Atlas and Polar advised the U.S. Department of Transportation (DOT) that they had entered into an agreement whereby AAWW would acquire all of the outstanding stock of Polar.

Good for you. I am glad that you are comfortable with your position. Doug Parker is giving you exactly what you are asking for. Enjoy your LOA 93 until retirement.

Now for those that are going to retire in the next 10 years. You know that valuable attrition that those junior guys want from you. How is LOA 93 working out? No raise no improvement until you retire to help out the junior guys.

In 2020 10 years from now 1700 of you will retire on your current contract. That benefits you how?

We just saw from the MDA discussion that the majority of east pilots have no clue what is or was going on with the MDA guys. The same thing is true for the Nicolau award. The majority of east guys don't know the truth about Nicolau. So 10 years from now will you point to usapa and scream they screwed you? That it was usapa 's fault that you did not know. History says you will.

The east inflicting damage on everyone you can.

 

[aquagreen73s]

You are confusing position of the former with outcome of the binding arbitration. Once something moves from mere "position" to completed arbitration, things change. Kinda like in litigation, the parties are free to settle on their own terms until the judge or jury announces its verdict. After that, the side that did not like the verdict cannot insist that the other side keep negotiating for a settlement. The time to do that was before the verdict.

Rule 68C. Post judgment offer to settle. What's delicious about our situation is that in USAPA's haste to cram down DOH, they eliminated the West as a separate legal entity. We no longer exist. Poof. Vaporized. They were so sure that Seham was going to cram DOH down our throats and trade "labor peace with two-thirds of the pilot group in exchange for a cost neutral contract . . . " We all know "cost neutral" was USAPA code-speak for "give us the Kirby in exchange for DOH."

How's that working out for you guys? Now you've gone nowhere in three years, you're at the very bottom of the barrel in wages, working conditions, you name it, and you've guaranteed there will be no compromise. If your collective actions had been from one person, I'd say that person desperately needs a court ordered conservator appointed. For your own good, you really shouldn't be handling your own affairs.

 

[Freighterguynow]

Now for those that are going to retire in the next 10 years. You know that valuable attrition that those junior guys want from you. How is LOA 93 working out? No raise no improvement until you retire to help out the junior guys.

In 2020 10 years from now 1700 of you will retire on your current contract. That benefits you how?

Another call to rally the hoped for silent majority to your cause.

Hasn't it sunken in yet that no other East poster, well except for 924ps, has joined the cause?

How's the recall going - can you even manage that?

 

[Black Swan]

If that's the case why in hell didn't you recall the MEC? You guys are all too quick to place blame on those who can no longer defend themselves yet accept NO responsibility for your own inaction.

We recalled them all at once with the USAPA sweep. Every one of them, and the guys they appointed in the committee positions were TERMINATED in one vote. We never voted to put in Jack Stephan. We all voted to take him out.

 

[cleardirect]

Another call to rally the hoped for silent majority to your cause.

Hasn't it sunken in yet that no other East poster, well except for 924ps, has joined the cause?

How's the recall going - can you even manage that?

No rally cry. I asked a question. Are the 1700 east pilots that are going to retire under LOA 93 comfortable? If all of you are then fine. Enjoy LOA 93. Leave the junior AFO club to us. We will be the majority soon enough and we can deal with them than.

I don't know how the recall is going. Is Crimi still an elected union buster?

Otherwise I don't know what recall you are talking about. Cleary and the rest are doing a fine job everyday.