US Pilots Labor Discussion

[mrbreeze]

disregard

 

[apollo]

AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION, INTERNATIONAL
101ST REGULAR EXECUTIVE COUNCIL MEETING
January 15-17, 2008
SUBJECT
ALPA Support for AAA and AWA MECs and the Treatment of US
Airways Payments to ALPA Under the Transition Agreement

,,,,,,,,,,,......;;;;;;;;;;;;;

WHEREAS, as stated by President Prater in a letter to the Chairmen
17 of the AAA and AWA MECs on January 11, 2008, “[t]he Association
18 commits to fully support these efforts with all the resources both
19 technical and financial that are necessary for the steering committee
20 members to oversee the development of a comprehensive contract
21 proposal for the joint negotiations that addresses the issues of both
22 pilot groups, including seniority implementation issues as well as pay,
23 work rules, benefits, and job security”, and

;;;;;;;''''''//////........................

WHEREAS the Transition Agreement provides that the referenced
58 funds are “payable to the Association following the submission and the
59 Airline Parties’ acceptance of a merged seniority list”, and
60
61 WHEREAS Section 60D 1d(1)(d) of ALPA’s Administrative Manual
62 establishes Grant and Loan Provisions regarding OCF funding,
63 including
64
AI#44
Page 3 of 5
65 As a condition of granting and maintaining loan(s), the Executive
66 Council will require the MEC to develop and maintain a financial
67 and operating plan that shall include how the MEC will reduce
68 expenses, reduce and/or eliminate funding requirements from the
69 OCF and repay the loan”, along with granting the Executive
70 Council the authority to “require the MEC to levy an assessment
71 under Article IX, Section 7C of the Constitution and By-Laws, on
72 the members of that airline in an amount necessary to repay the
73 loan. (60D 1d(1)(d)(v))
74
75 The Executive Council may require the MEC to levy an
76 assessment under Article IX, Section 7C of the Constitution and
77 By-Laws, on the members of that airline in an amount necessary
78 to repay the loan. The Executive Council shall determine both
79 the effective date and the duration of the assessment. (60D
80 1d(1)(d)(vi))
81
82 The Executive Council may approve conversion of all or part of
83 the outstanding loan to a grant. (60D 1d(1)(d)(vii))
84
85
86 WHEREAS the merged seniority list was delivered to and accepted by
87 US Airways on December 19, 2007, and
88
89 WHEREAS ALPA has received the $600,000 payment from the
90 Company consistent with the terms of the Transition Agreement, and
..........////////////////,,,,,,,++++++++++++++

 

[cactusboy53]

Nothing personal but it sounds like sour grapes to me he is writing for EAA and you on this forum.

Nah. Sour grapes is when USAPA has Sully & Skiles show up to a DUTY OF FAIR REPRESENTATION trial against USAPA and compels them to testify HOW UNFAIR THE NICOLAU LIST IS. What does one thing have to do with the other? NOTHING. Just a cheap parlor trick that the jury saw right through. The jury still only took 90 minutes to find USAPA GUILTY of DFR.

BTW, I am an EAA supporter and welcome any article that Skiles writes that pertains to GA, aviation technology, and the love of aviation. The first article that I see from Skiles that has anything unrelated to that will bring a swift end to my support of the EAA.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

I know how you feel.

Between Claxon, Apollo, and Mikey, you come across as an f-ing genius.

It takes every ounce of patience I have to continue to help the east ignorant see the light of truth.

Be yourself. Everyone else is already taken.! MM!

 

[Crzipilot]

So, If I were in charge, I would make sure all new deliveries headed West.......ummmm...how many of those 12 new 320s coming by December are going West? Then I would inform scheduling that if any disgruntled idiot quits mid trip, particularly while in Europe, to inform them to turn in their badge immediately at the local station, and pass on to immigration and the watch list that their IDs may be compromised. Then, I would start training both sides, full on, ignore the TA, and do whatever the hell I felt like, claiming force majeure because of the constraints the scab union has imposed by violating the same.
.

Hmmm.....check your fleet totals when the chairs stop moving. Think you might not be getting as many 320's you think you are. Aren't you still 1 or 2 airframes above min fleet? Hmmmmm.....

 

[Move2CLT]

Hmmm.....check your fleet totals when the chairs stop moving. Think you might not be getting as many 320's you think you are. Aren't you still 1 or 2 airframes above min fleet? Hmmmmm.....

You voting Teamsters Crzi?

 

[nic4us]

Typical AWA scumbag lowlife obstifuscation.... We were talking about the impending age 65 retirements starting next year, that the AWA scum are just turning themselves inside out trying to steal from the US Airways east pilots.

Not very surprising, really, that they are once again manipulating the facts. Like - "We had 22 airplanes ordered and paid for." Truth - 6 ordered and 16 options.

You have got to love it....

Boeing Driver

Maybe you were talking about age 65 retirements, I was talking about a much larger, disruptive walk off of east pilots who no longer want to hang around for the crappy LOA93 working conditions, once Kasher rules in the company's favor. Any pilot over 62.5 can get early SS, add to that the PBGC and anything they saved, and it just might add up to "I quit", once they see there is going to be no big payday of retro back to 1-1-2010, or a salary increase going forward.

This conversation started because somebody claimed 300 retirements next year, and a hiring of 25/month starting in early 2012. Then it was pointed out there is nowhere near 300 retirements next year based on the number of pilots reaching 65. Therefore, it was never about age 65 retirement planning, but just a guess of how many are going to leave prior to age 65.

Now here is the math that says you are an idiot, and a jerk for claiming the West wants to steal anything from the east. Especially since it is already ours, and it is hard to "steal" something that you already own.

For 2013, 144 east and 40 West= 184. For 2014 201 east and 42 West=243, for 2015 179 east and 48 West=227. and this continues out til 2022 with similar ratios. So, the east retires roughly 3.5 times what the West does. But the Nic is a slotted list giving the east a 2 out of 3 advantage, plus the top 517. So, it is nothing more than a push for the West who got pushed down the combined list. When you add that for a guy like me, who is senior to a very large percentage of any east retirements, but junior to almost all West retirement, it all boils down to go screw yourself if you think you are getting out of the Nic and stealing my seniority you reneging lowlife.

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

Any pilot over 62.5 can get early SS, add to that the PBGC and anything they saved, and it just might add up to "I quit", once they see there is going to be no big payday of retro back to 1-1-2010, or a salary increase going forward.

Dream on. PBGC does not pay out until one is 65 or one quits. At least on the PBGC form letter I saw written to a 57 year old pilot. Right on the front page.

Your continued misinformation (at best) seems pretty silly, right along with your insistence that the 93 means nothing. As if you know anything.

 

[nic4us]

Hmmm.....check your fleet totals when the chairs stop moving. Think you might not be getting as many 320's you think you are. Aren't you still 1 or 2 airframes above min fleet? Hmmmmm.....

I think the West is at absolute fleet min. We are taking like 8 or 10 of the 12 deliveries as our last 737s are going out by December.

Two points of interest, the West has not only a fleet min but a min block hour. We been running at min block since 2008 when the company transfered our flying east to mitigate the east furloughs, while exagerating the West furlough need, and furloughed out of seniority at the scab unions request.

If you recall, the only grievence usapa has won of any significance was the TA-10 West min block grievence, of which we still have not been paid, although we won that grievence what? 2 years ago???? Seems usapa is in no hurry to collect on a won grievence, yet they have no problem dropping the training mispay grievence, and the company has been pulling that from my check for the last few paychecks.

So, if the West is operating 114 of the A320s, and you push the West back above min block hour, the company could reduce the east's 737 flying dramatically. Making up for a significant portion of any disruption cause by an LOA93 loss.

 

[nic4us]

Dream on. PBGC does not pay out until one is 65 or one quits. At least on the PBGC form letter I saw written to a 57 year old pilot. Right on the front page.

Your continued misinformation (at best) seems pretty silly, right along with your insistence that the 93 means nothing. As if you know anything.

You are right, I do not know exactly how the PBCG works. I have to rely on what I get from east pilots familiar with the system, and what they have been told they can expect.

So, are you saying that if a 62.5 year old east pilot QUITS...s/he gets paid or not????

 

[azdryheat]

Dream on. PBGC does not pay out until one is 65 or one quits. At least on the PBGC form letter I saw written to a 57 year old pilot. Right on the front page.

Your continued misinformation (at best) seems pretty silly, right along with your insistence that the 93 means nothing. As if you know anything.

Not correct. You can receive your PBGC payments when retiring or when you reach normal retirement age (for a pilot age 60, since this was correct when the plan was terminated). I know several over 60 pilots who are still working and also collect their PBGC payments.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Not correct. You can receive your PBGC payments when retiring or when you reach normal retirement age (for a pilot age 60, since this was correct when the plan was terminated). I know several over 60 pilots who are still working and also collect their PBGC payments.

There was a big discussion of this 9-12 months ago. I'd said, based on what I knew at the time, that one had to leave US to start collecting from the PBGC and that was the case when the retirement age was 60. Apparently the law was changed after the retirement age changed, and those over 60 can continue to work AND start collecting their PBGC benefit. So apparently there is no PBGC benefit to leaving before 65.

Jim

 

[N924PS]

Dream on. PBGC does not pay out until one is 65 or one quits. At least on the PBGC form letter I saw written to a 57 year old pilot. Right on the front page.

Your continued misinformation (at best) seems pretty silly, right along with your insistence that the 93 means nothing. As if you know anything.

You can take your PBGC benefit anytime you wish. However, if you take it prior to Age 60, penalties apply. The plan was predicated on Age 60 when it was terminated, so you can receive your PBGC benefit and still work at USAirways after reaching Age 60.

If you choose not to receive your PBGC benefit until age 65, which many PC4 ($28K per year) pilots will do, you can receive the max benefit for plans terminated in 2003. About 44K/year.

 

[A320 Driver]

If you recall, the only grievence usapa has won of any significance was the TA-10 West min block grievence, of which we still have not been paid, although we won that grievence what? 2 years ago???? Seems usapa is in no hurry to collect on a won grievence, yet they have no problem dropping the training mispay grievence, and the company has been pulling that from my check for the last few paychecks.

As I see it, the arbitrator did us no favors giving the West pilots a win, but making the union and the company responsible for negotiating a remedy. Isn't that the arbitrators job? I understand the Grievance Committee has had to go back to the arbitrator because the negotiations have gone no where. What did you expect? The company handing over the cash when the arbitration apparently has no time limits associated with it? The company will pay you when the HAVE TO. Not one second sooner. If I have this wrong, somebody tell me (somebody credible....thanks)

So, if the West is operating 114 of the A320s, and you push the West back above min block hour, the company could reduce the east's 737 flying dramatically.

Why?

Driver B)

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

You are right, I do not know exactly how the PBCG works. I have to rely on what I get from east pilots familiar with the system, and what they have been told they can expect.

So, are you saying that if a 62.5 year old east pilot QUITS...s/he gets paid or not????

I only know what I read on someone's PBGC letter.

They could not be under 65, still working for USAir and get PBGC. I would assume that to receive PBGC and over 60 that they would have to quit.