US Pilots Labor Discussion

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Now here is the math that says you are an idiot, and a jerk for claiming the West wants to steal anything from the east. Especially since it is already ours, and it is hard to "steal" something that you already own.

For 2013, 144 east and 40 West= 184. For 2014 201 east and 42 West=243, for 2015 179 east and 48 West=227. and this continues out til 2022 with similar ratios. So, the east retires roughly 3.5 times what the West does. But the Nic is a slotted list giving the east a 2 out of 3 advantage, plus the top 517. So, it is nothing more than a push for the West who got pushed down the combined list. When you add that for a guy like me, who is senior to a very large percentage of any east retirements, but junior to almost all West retirement, it all boils down to go screw yourself if you think you are getting out of the Nic and stealing my seniority you reneging lowlife.

Key words here"Your are senior to a large part of( EAST RETIREMENTS)but junior to your own(WEST RETIREMENTS)and we want to"STEAL YOUR SENIORITY"! Do we still drug test? Seperate ops, no list no joint contract, no is stealing anything, BTW, you got nothing anyone wants!

 

[CallawayGolf]

Key words here"Your are senior to a large part of( EAST RETIREMENTS)but junior to your own(WEST RETIREMENTS)and we want to"STEAL YOUR SENIORITY"! Do we still drug test? Seperate ops, no list no joint contract, no is stealing anything, BTW, you got nothing anyone wants!

Yeah, no 17-24 year previously furloughed pilot who can barely hold the right seat would possibly want to take the left seat flying out of PHX the next opportunity following a JCBA. The east pilots know that it's only fair for west pilots to keep the positions they held prior to the merger. They have far too much integrity to come and displace west pilots with their DOH seniority number. No chance of that happening at all, right?

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Yeah, no 17-24 year previously furloughed pilot who can barely hold the right seat would possibly want to take the left seat flying out of PHX the next opportunity following a JCBA. The east pilots know that it's only fair for west pilots to keep the positions they held prior to the merger. They have far too much integrity to come and displace west pilots with their DOH seniority number. No chance of that happening at all, right?

Keep your positions and PHX! No problem with that, in fact for years to come!

 

[Move2CLT]

Keep your positions and PHX! No problem with that, in fact for years to come!

And you'll keep LOA93 for years to come. No problem with the either!

 

[CallawayGolf]

Keep your positions and PHX! No problem with that, in fact for years to come!

You say that like you have some control over the outcome. You don't. At best you have a vote which thus far hasn't gained you anything in terms of a new contract or better pay. If you should ever get a chance to use that vote, what makes you think you could control what others do with a fully combined seniority system? Your opinion will not change what others may or may not do. Now if a court places USAPA under an injunction (I mean another one), that compels the use of the NIC then of course west and east pilots would be able to keep the seat they had at the PID without creating a gain for one side at the expense of the other. Nicolau certainly had it right all along.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

You say that like you have some control over the outcome. You don't. At best you have a vote which thus far hasn't gained you anything in terms of a new contract or better pay. If you should ever get a chance to use that vote, what makes you think you could control what others do with a fully combined seniority system? Your opinion will not change what others may or may not do. Now if a court places USAPA under an injunction (I mean another one), that compels the use of the NIC then of course west and east pilots would be able to keep the seat they had at the PID without creating a gain for one side at the expense of the other. Nicolau certainly had it right all along.

Wow your control over the outcome seems to be a little in the hole!(pun intended) last chance at your so called injunction sorta got squashed!LOA 93 hasn't been decided yet has it? Even so your lottery ticket will never get cashed. Your opinion is well, your opinion! Your keeping of seat position is as naive as PHX will expand and be the next super hub, our bet shut down or severely downsized with a JOINT CONTRACT, DREAM ON CALLY! Next injunction, YASFOS!

 

[mikey60]

mikey,

As I understand it, both PC-3 and PC-4's can start drawing at 60 while continuing to work, although the changes were after I retired and didn't apply to me so I'm not positive. You do apparently have the PC-3 and PC-4 benefit reversed. PC-3's get their calculated benefit, or at least most do - there may be some PC-3's that were hired older and didn't have that much service time before the pension was terminated. That's because the money that was in the plan is handed out to PC-3's first, before PC-4's get any of it. There was enough money to pay PC-3's ~98% of their full pension benefit corrected for "early retirement" penalties based on when the plan was terminated. That is greater than the PBGC guarantee for most PC-3's. Once PC-3's calculated benefit amount was set, it doesn't change regardless of when they start drawing the benefit since the amount was established based on the plan termination date which doesn't change.

The PC-4 benefit changes with the age you start drawing it since it is based on the maximum PBGC guaranteed amount which itself changes with the age benefits start.

In short, PC-3 benefits have the "early retirement" penalties of the termination calculated into the amount of the benefit, so the benefit doesn't change. PC-4's take the "early retirement" penalties based on when they start getting the benefit - start drawing earlier, get less, start drawing later, get more.

As I said, the easiest way to know what you'll if you start drawing at a given point is to call the PBGC. I've never had an unfriendly rep and they'll take all the time you need to get your questions answered. For PC-4's, the table of maximum benefits is on the PBGC website so you can use that as a starting point but you have about 6-8 options for the benefit and the table in the website only shows two of those.

Jim

Yes I did, thanks.

 

[Black Swan]

You say that like you have some control over the outcome. You don't. At best you have a vote which thus far hasn't gained you anything in terms of a new contract or better pay. If you should ever get a chance to use that vote, what makes you think you could control what others do with a fully combined seniority system? Your opinion will not change what others may or may not do. Now if a court places USAPA under an injunction (I mean another one), that compels the use of the NIC then of course west and east pilots would be able to keep the seat they had at the PID without creating a gain for one side at the expense of the other. Nicolau certainly had it right all along.

You guys just don't get anything. Callaway what happened to your crackpot Wake? He got spanked by the 9th for doing the same stupid thing.

 

[nevergiveup]

You say that like you have some control over the outcome. You don't. At best you have a vote which thus far hasn't gained you anything in terms of a new contract or better pay. If you should ever get a chance to use that vote, what makes you think you could control what others do with a fully combined seniority system? Your opinion will not change what others may or may not do. Now if a court places USAPA under an injunction (I mean another one), that compels the use of the NIC then of course west and east pilots would be able to keep the seat they had at the PID without creating a gain for one side at the expense of the other. Nicolau certainly had it right all along.

I guess if I were given another man's fortune I would agree as well.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

You say that like you have some control over the outcome. You don't. At best you have a vote which thus far hasn't gained you anything in terms of a new contract or better pay. If you should ever get a chance to use that vote, what makes you think you could control what others do with a fully combined seniority system? Your opinion will not change what others may or may not do. Now if a court places USAPA under an injunction (I mean another one), that compels the use of the NIC then of course west and east pilots would be able to keep the seat they had at the PID without creating a gain for one side at the expense of the other. Nicolau certainly had it right all along.

The "PID" proof positive NIC got it wrong, wait another 2 years , if he got it wrong was a baseball game, NIC hit a "GRAND SLAM"! Your dream of the "NIC" is just that, FANTASY, if LOA93 hits !, SCIENCE FICTION! MM!

 

[aquagreen73s]

I guess if I were given another man's fortune I would agree as well.

Too bad for you nobody outside of the East sees it that way. You guys are an island of self-pity unto yourselves.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Too bad for you nobody outside of the East sees it that way. You guys are an island of self-pity unto yourselves.

Island of Self Pity? See that's where you just don't get it, Too bad? Yea for you! MM! Remember we should be out of business and be beholding to you! DREAM ON! You want it BAD FOR A REASON!

 

[apollo]

Too bad for you nobody outside of the East sees it that way. You guys are an island of self-pity unto yourselves.

East and west pilots are twins eating each other in the womb. The company has been providing plasma, via transfusion, to the west pilots using the court system.

This transfusion is extending the life of the west, until the companies need for Neocutis is no longer necessary due to the inevitable corporate transaction (not a merger) with AMR.

 

[nevergiveup]

Too bad for you nobody outside of the East sees it that way. You guys are an island of self-pity unto yourselves.

Actually, everyone outside the east I have spoken with sees it that way.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Actually, everyone outside the east I have spoken with sees it that way.

Right. Sure. Everyone loves scabs, don't they?