US Pilots Labor Discussion

[apollo]

Gosh, you gotta laugh at this guy.

When it benefits the East to do so, we all must call it a corporate transaction (not a merger), implying that US is in the driver's seat and imposing the terms on their prey. Except when another company rescues US from the grave (AWA) or purchases it outright with a pre-nup (UA in 2000). In that case all the talking heads around here scream that it's a MERGER and nothing less... not a transaction... not picking up the pieces of an almost defunct airline... not an acquisition.

Complete BS hypocrisy.

A corporate transaction. How about a demerger and a buyout? Follow the money soon.

 

[767jetz]

Sorta like CAL saving UAL, gotta get goin if your going to have that JCBA by years end! MM!

Not at all like that. Except in your bizzaro world maybe.

CAL and UAL was about as close to a merger of equals as you can get. Neither was in bankruptcy. Both were profitable at the time, stand alone. Stock swap deal. No private equity.

So tell me oh speaker of tortured syntax... how is it that CO saved UAL?

I'll give you one thing though, CO did save UA from having to deal with the likes of you and the rest of the east! Thank God for small miracles. I really do hope you merger with AA so that the APA can hand you your a$$es once and for all.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Not at all like that. Except in your bizzaro world maybe.

CAL and UAL was about as close to a merger of equals as you can get. Neither was in bankruptcy. Both were profitable at the time, stand alone. Stock swap deal. No private equity.

So tell me oh speaker of tortured syntax... how is it that CO saved UAL?

I'll give you one thing though, CO did save UA from having to deal with the likes of you and the rest of the east! Thank God for small miracles. I really do hope you merger with AA so that the APA can hand you your a$$es once and for all.

So I take it that the JCBA is not going well! MM!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

http://www.npr.org/blogs/money/2010/05/the_unitedcontinental_merger_a.html

 

[nycbusdriver]

So if you begin collecting 26K at 60, you are 150K ahead by 65. If you wait till 65 to begin collecting, you won't recoup that 150K until you're 73.3 years old (150K divided by 18K per year difference between 26K and 44K).

Question: If by some miracle the Pension Investigation actually yields some sort of financial compensation - lets say a bump from PC-4 to PC-3, is it retroactive? IOW, for those approaching 60, would it be prudent to wait for a resolution to the investigation before they begin collecting?

Can't answer your question, but, given my father passed at 79 and my mother at 83, I will bet on living beyond 73.3 and be ahead of the game. Of course, someone here is going to say: "Yeah, but you could put that 150K in an Umpity-dumpity Lump Fund and draw 15% interest on it." Yeah, right.

 

[Phoenix]

deleted

Hear! Hear!
Hear! Hear!
And three cheers!

 

[767jetz]

So I take it that the JCBA is not going well! MM!

Depends who you ask.

- Progress is much slower than any pilot would like. It is in the hands of the company how fast they move. No motivation until they are closer to their SOC at the end of the year.

- JCBA is moving along the RLA path and the mediator just agreed to more meetings since progress only seems to happen when he is present.

- ALAP has not caved to ANY management positions, as they know a sub-standard contract will not pass ratification.

- It is clear that all 12000 pilots from both CO and UA expect the new work rules to be based on UAL NOT CAL pilot work rules.

So the bottom line is progress is steady but slow and ALPA is not going to accept concessions on an already concessionary contract rules.

NOW... what does JCBA progress have to do with "CO saving UA?" Once again you change the subject rather than support your claims with any facts.

 

[apollo]

So the bottom line is progress is steady but slow and ALPA is not going to accept concessions on an already concessionary contract rules.

You lose furlough protection for ual pilots at the end of the year. You have made no progress, except to agree on mediocre sections. The clock is ticking to the end of the year, ual has you where they want you now.

ual mediocre negotiations score care to date.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Depends who you ask.

- Progress is much slower than any pilot would like. It is in the hands of the company how fast they move. No motivation until they are closer to their SOC at the end of the year.

- JCBA is moving along the RLA path and the mediator just agreed to more meetings since progress only seems to happen when he is present.

- ALAP has not caved to ANY management positions, as they know a sub-standard contract will not pass ratification.

- It is clear that all 12000 pilots from both CO and UA expect the new work rules to be based on UAL NOT CAL pilot work rules.

So the bottom line is progress is steady but slow and ALPA is not going to accept concessions on an already concessionary contract rules.

NOW... what does JCBA progress have to do with "CO saving UA?" Once again you change the subject rather than support your claims with any facts.

Without a merger you were DOA ! FACT! Good luck! odds furloughs at UAL year end!

 

[cactusboy53]

Without a merger you were DOA ! FACT! Good luck! odds furloughs at UAL year end!

Geez, that sounds REALLY FAMILIAR! Where have I heard that before? Seems like it was Spring 2005......Now who were they talking about then.....??????

 

[apollo]

ual pilots will get furloughed at the end of the year.

"TENTATIVE AGREEMENT TRANSITION AND PROCESS LOA 7/19/10
AGREEMENT
between
CONTINENTAL AIRLINES, INC., UAL CORPORATION,
AND UNITED AIR LINES, INC.,
and the
PILOTS
in the service of
CONTINENTAL AIRLINES, INC. AND UNITED AIR LINES, INC.
as represented by
THE AIR LINE PILOTS ASSOCIATION
_________________________________________
TRANSITION AND PROCESS AGREEMENT
………………….////////////////////////;;;;;’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’’

13-A. Partial Termination. Unless the Parties agree otherwise, the Airline Parties may jointly terminate the provisions of Sections 4-D (Domiciles), 7-A (Furlough with regard to United Pilots only), 7-C (Flying Ratios), 7-D (Domicile and Base Protection), and 9 (ALPA Travel), individually or collectively, at any time on or after December 31, 2011, if the parties have not reached a tentative agreement on a JCBA by that date.

4-D. Domiciles. Neither Continental nor United will create or operate a new domicile, or add a new equipment type to an existing domicile, within one hundred fifty (150) miles of the other’s existing domicile, except that Continental may operate its B-787 aircraft using the EWR Base and/or may create an LAX B-737 Base for non-stop flying between LAX or its Co-terminal airports (i.e. ONT, BUR and SNA) and Hawaii or Continental hubs. Such LAX B-737 Base will not serve city pairs from LAX or its Co-terminal airports that do not have Continental service from those airports on the date of this Transition and Process Agreement. There shall be no reduction in the number of Pilots assigned to the United LAX domicile as a result of opening a Continental Base.

7-A. Furlough. Effective as of the Merger Agreement Date, no Continental or United Pilot (except Pilots hired after the Merger Closing Date, including those employed pursuant to Section 7-B below) will be placed on furlough, if at all, until the passage of one year after the Operational Merger Date. Nothing in this paragraph shall be construed to prohibit or require the recall of any Pilot on furlough as of the Merger Agreement Date.

7-C. Flying Ratios. In each consecutive six (6) month period during separate operations beginning on the Merger Closing Date, the ratio of aircraft block hours scheduled to be flown by United to the aircraft block hours scheduled to be flown by Continental, will equal or exceed ninety percent (90%) of the same ratio for the same six (6) month period during the period May 1, 2009 through April 30, 2010 (excluding United’s 737 scheduled aircraft block hours during the period May 1, 2009 through April 30, 2010). The applicable scheduled aircraft block hours for the period May 1, 2009 through April 30, 2010 are shown in Attachment C. Aircraft block hours scheduled to be flown by Continental Aircraft will not be included under this paragraph if:
(i) the aircraft are listed as on order or in storage on Attachment A; and
(ii) the aircraft enter or return to active service after the Merger Agreement Date; and
(iii) the aircraft are in addition to the number of aircraft in service as listed on Attachment A.
Similarly, adjustments to scheduled block hours for the same schedule from one period to another (i.e., the same aircraft on the same routing) will not affect the calculation, and reasonable block hour reductions attributable to aircraft removed from active service for purposes of modification or painting related to the merger will not be considered in the numerator or denominator of a ratio under this paragraph. The Airline Parties will advise the Association of such reductions.

7-D. Domicile and Base Protection. United may not close a Domicile (as defined in the United CBA) and Continental may not close a Base (as defined in the Continental CBA).

Section 9
ALPA Travel
For the express purposes of the negotiation, review, approvals, and ratification of the JCBA, Continental and United will both provide positive space travel to the ALPA MECs, the ALPA JNC, and the Pilots and ALPA staff designated by the ALPA JNC as necessary for JNC support. The Airlines will also provide positive space travel directly related to negotiation and arbitration of the SLI for the ALPA SLI Merger Committees and necessary Pilot support related thereto. All of the above will be in accordance with the Airlines’ respective business travel policies, including the ability to upgrade.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

You lose furlough protection for ual pilots at the end of the year. You have made no progress, except to agree on mediocre sections. The clock is ticking to the end of the year, ual has you where they want you now.

ual mediocre negotiations score care to date.

APOLLO, jumped a CAL crew to JAPAN, they said basically jetz WAS fULL OF SH*& ! They could care less about a CBA and they will pull down the UAL side, hire them at CAL, and continue under seperate ops, SMISEK as they said will pull down UAL by returning their fleet to the owners and attrition ! MM

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Geez, that sounds REALLY FAMILIAR! Where have I heard that before? Seems like it was Spring 2005......Now who were they talking about then.....??????

Well I guess it was AWA's slots being traded with DAL, no didn't think so, your franchise is so toast, your delusion of saving USAIR is so laughable! MM!

 

[N924PS]

You have made no progress, except to agree on mediocre sections.

Hmm. That has a familiar ring to it. Where have we heard this before?

 

[BoeingBoy]

MM, you should really drop the fantasies and concentrate on backing up at least one of your statements - like revenue in PHX. It's really a shame you post so much and say so little...

Jim