US Pilots Labor Discussion

[BoeingBoy]

It's a different game these days.........not anymore, the battle today has unified the East pilots.

breeze

Well, that certainly explains the union exhorting pilots to "just fly your line" I guess...are they still threatening to post the names of those that overfly the caps?

Jim

 

[aquagreen73s]

Hope you are right Luv, we are in a real rut right now. Need to break the logjam.

No we don't. Separate ops forever, remember?

Some type of M & A will only highlight the lack of Scope in the AWA contract.

Fragmentation language is identical in both East and West CBAs. The problem for the East is that LOA93 modified your Section1 when Airways is in bankruptcy, and the ramifications are horrendous for the East. You best read up on LOA93 and what it does to your section 1 should Airways go back into BK.

 

[aquagreen73s]

(and even some of the West pilots...even if they will not admit it, are my brothers and sisters in this life 🙂.

This family donated and did so with gusto...because I know it would be reciprocated in a second if/when the time comes. Go Rachel!

 

[mrbreeze]

How many west 757 posters here start their statements with, "While speeding along over the Pacific last night..."

I guess after a while it gets to be no big deal. Glad to see you're still giddy about flying for the Trans-Atlantic Carrier of Choice. And at 75% of the pay of the next highest carrier out there, no less.

Not too many are still in this solely for the love of flying and listening to Captains complaining and drinking foul coffee.

luvn...what is your beef about my flying International? I was just setting the background for this tacky comment. If I had said that I was over, say, Illinois and someone made that comment, that's a whole different scenerio, as far as the radio chatter.

Also, I have made comments about the Trans Atlantic flying as it relates to maintenance issues, since that is where we are having a lot of issues with an older fleet.

I assume you just can't wait to get into the Intl arena......it's eating you up.

breeze

 

[mrbreeze]

This family donated and did so with gusto...because I know it would be reciprocated in a second if/when the time comes. Go Rachel!

Of course......there are larger things in this life than this job.

 

[luvthe9]

So, Dec 1. in PHX with Judge Silver for the DJ should be interesting. It's all coming to an end. Time to split this mess?

 

[Iclubbabyseals]

How many west 757 posters here start their statements with, "While speeding along over the Pacific last night..."

I guess after a while it gets to be no big deal. Glad to see you're still giddy about flying for the Trans-Atlantic Carrier of Choice. And at 75% of the pay of the next highest carrier out there, no less.

Not too many are still in this solely for the love of flying and listening to Captains complaining and drinking foul coffee.

I guess you speak for most, if not all of the west pilots.

On the TA. The east flies for half, not 75%, of the going rate. Every single pilot I fly with loves flying. Still. From personal experience, it is the FOs that complain, if anything like that happens, and, perhaps because the entire crew flies together, after ten years, not one cup of "foul" coffee. In fact, we do not even consider leaving the gate with water that is undrinkable. Same thing with domestic, at least on the east side.

Unlike, apparently, the west, those of us on the east remember our basic training, that conserving resources like drinkable water is a potential survival guarantee, whether over the water between Los Angeles and Honolulu or over the northern and relatively inhospitable part of Greenland.

IMHO you would be an idiot to accept an aircraft with compromised "potable" water, but, then, I consider the source.

 

[luvthe9]

My, another one positive of victory.

Jim

Yes indeed, but that ONE is a really big one. Now go back an finish you ALPO magazine. B) Your holding on to tight you are finished in this industry, just let go.

 

[traderjake]

Why should he, watching the USAPA train wreck is too much fun.

 

[BoeingBoy]

Good to see you still employ the tactics of a weak mind luv...

Jim

 

[traderjake]

Every single pilot I fly with loves flying.

Is that why I see all the pilots smiling when I walk through the terminal? (sarcasm)

 

[Reed Richards]

No we don't. Separate ops forever, remember?

Fragmentation language is identical in both East and West CBAs. The problem for the East is that LOA93 modified your Section1 when Airways is in bankruptcy, and the ramifications are horrendous for the East. You best read up on LOA93 and what it does to your section 1 should Airways go back into BK.

Here are some of the key weaknesses to the Scope language in the West contract:

• The title of the West Contract Section 1 says it all; Recognition, Scope and MANAGEMENT Rights.

• The East Contract Section 1 says:
• RECOGNITION, SCOPE, SUCCESSORSHIP, AND LABOR PROTECTIVE PROVISIONS.

• In the event of a complete merger…. There is no language in the event of a partial merger or asset sales in the West section. East language has 20% of assets language, and does not differentiate between complete and incomplete merger.

• “Where the surviving carrier decides to integrate the pre-merger operations”…. What if the surviving carrier decides not to have a large hub in Phoenix
and substantially downsizes these from a Hub to a “Focus City” as they did with Pittsburgh? NO PROTECTION! It could be argued that this language then does not apply. If there is a substantial change to “pre-merger operations” then this language may not apply and not protect the pilots.

• …the Company will make reasonable efforts to have the surviving carrier integrate… the two pilot groups in the same manner as stated in (1) of this paragraph. This is a deal killer. Reasonable Efforts are a non-defined term. The company could ask the transferee to comply with the seniority provision and the transferee simply says no. So much for reasonable efforts ! There are no teeth in this agreement and no way to force the company to comply.

A deal could be easily structured to avoid any Scope obligation at all in the West language.

The East Language is much more concrete:

East language talks about asset transfers and sales not aircraft transfers only.
East language is binding on the successor with no “reasonable efforts” language.
East language does not require a complete merger, only a triggering event of 20%.
East language gives USAPA the right to re-enter section 6 or extend the contract.
East language does not depend on language regarding pre-merger operations integration.
East language gives CAR’s or contingent acquisition rights to the pilots.
East language has withstood several mergers and two bankruptcies and is still largely intact.

WEST SCOPE LANGUAGE IS ESSENTIALLY NON-EXISTANT

RR

 

[mrbreeze]

Is that way I see all the pilots smiling when I walk through the terminal? (sarcasm)

Nope, the disgruntled looks on their faces are from meeting a traitor like you in the concourse. Try not to get it confused in your fantasy world.

breeze

 

[luvthe9]

Why should he, watching the USAPA train wreck is very entertaining.

Your could be right it does not take much to amuse small a mind, I'm sure every pilot aspires to rule a chat board in their retirement years. B)

 

[luvthe9]

Nope, the disgruntled looks on their faces are from meeting a traitor like you in the concourse. Try not to get it confused in your fantasy world.

breeze

Yo Breeze ,ask this lowlife if he is going to take the pay increase and back pay should we win, I have tried a number of times.