US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Hate2fly]

As Chester A. Riley said on many occasions, "What a revolting development this is".

By my count, looking out over the battlefield, we have split into at least six factions.

1. The Iron Compass faction, now holed up at HQ which more and more resembles the Alamo, or a particular and infamous WWII undeground bunker.

2. The Compass Correction group. Quick to point out the failures and shortcomings of faction 1, and rightly so.

3. The USAPA founding group, affectionately referred to as the Boys in the Van.

4. ALPA loyalists who wish to see and may even now be actively working to bring us back to the Mother Ship.

5. The AOL group which exerts considerable influence over the PHX domicile and would probably like to see, unlike the first three factions, the baby thrown out with the bath water.

6. And finally, the rest who have given up, stopped voting, are approaching retirement or just don't care, etc.

Notes:

Faction 2 and 3 may be in close cooperation and for all intents and purposes could be regarded as one faction.

Faction 2 and 3 may assemble a coalition to run against faction 1 in the spring elections.

Faction 5 may do the same.

Faction 1 may attempt to preempt spring elections by starting an IBT card drive, depending on LOA93, but this is unlikely to succeed due to the timeline required for a card drive/representational election. Spring elections will be the first order of business.

If voter turnout is poor, as it was in CLT, a card drive is the next order of business, depending on LOA93.

Any new bargaining agent will be a temporary custodian if a corporate merger is in our future. (who would provide us with the best merger counsel?)

Did I mention LOA93 was important? Arbitrator Kasher is not being asked to incorporate dark energy into some unification theory of the universe. He hasn't done us any favors thus far. Enough already, how about a decision.

Question:

What is more important in the scheme of things and within the context of our remaining careers, having come this far for this long, with yet another merger possible - money and benefits - or a pecking order and a fourth stripe?

1984,

Nice work! Kasher will bring peace on the east very soon. Then you will here everyone trying to take credit for the win. The pilots that voted for USAPA get the credit.

Hate

 

[aquagreen73s]

5. The AOL group which exerts considerable influence over the PHX domicile and would probably like to see, unlike the first three factions, the baby thrown out with the bath water.

Wrong. Dead wrong. Faction 5 has stopped DOH and beyond that, faction 5 can care less. We're sick and tired of trying to talk sense into the East. All the harm that could be realized by the West has been realized. We gain little in the way of a joint contract as so much money has to go East to bring the West up to parity. Given the absolute incompetence of the NAC, many of the benefits in the West contract are sure to be gutted. Plus, we like being based out of PHX and not commuting across three times zones. Life is good. For once in the past six years we're comfortable. We're content to sit back and watch the East tear themselves apart. Some find that entertaining but most just don't care what you all do because no matter what we say, you won't listen. Eff it. We're done.

 

[Res Judicata]

1984,

Nice work! Kasher will bring peace on the east very soon. Then you will here everyone trying to take credit for the win. The pilots that voted for USAPA get the credit.

Hate

Unless "Kasher" is slang for Valium and Anti-Depressants I think you're going to be highly disappointed.

 

[john john]

Note breeze's comments I quoted. He has nothing to back those up because they're untrue.

Until Jan 2005 US pursued one path but as the cash dwindled management was forced to abandon that and pursue another.

Jim

This how it went down with the Passenger Service Agents


Company to CWA Comprehensive Transformation Proposal July 27, 2004
http://web.archive.org/web/20041013063944/www.cwa.net/PDFs/ManagementProposal.pdf





Here is a Company to CWA 1113 (c) Proposal October 22, 2004
Transformation Plan Term Sheet HP all over it

http://web.archive.org/web/20041030113039/www.cwa.net/PDFs/Management10-22-04proposal.pdf


http://web.archive.org/web/20040810085503/http://cwa.net/jumppages/JUNE22MEETINGjump.asp
Here is June 22,2004 talking about HP low pay and benefits and work rules

 

[Move2CLT]

CM,

I was at the PHL meeting on the 11th and didn't see any of the three authors above there. They were probably having a compass swing performed.

Hate

This is great watching you guys turn on each other.

 

[Move2CLT]

Boy, you faired better than I did. I went back 1641 numbers and 23%... and I was a blockholding B727 Captain. And after USAir shuffled the time around the bases to neutralize the conditions and restrictions, I was barely able to hold 737 Reserve Captain in my own domicile.

I think this is what is feared most about straight DOH. No matter what conditions and restrictions are put on it, there is always some way around them. I mean, what PSA Captain had widebodies in his career expectations? But in no time they held a good number of the Captain positions on former Piedmont 767s. USAir even went so far at one point as to cancel an order for Piedmont 767s and re-order them. It took them out of play for the Kagel C & Rs. I can't prove that is why it was done, but that was the result. I think many of the West pilots fear losing what they have. I understand it because I lived it. Many of the USAir pilots placed senior to me had never held a Captain position.

The AAA merger committee had a reasonable plan. I saw it, looked at the charts and graphs and asked many questions about it. All the work they put into it and then were not allowed to use it. It was the closest thing to middle ground I can think of. The NIC is not an answer, but it might get shoved down our throats by the courts. Straight DOH isn't really an answer either, IMO.

I'm just saying...it's a matter of perspective.

Driver B)

Middle ground? The east proposal was straight DOH. It was so lopsided that Nicolau asked the east if they thought of moving off it. He even sent them away to think about it for a few days.

Try reading the transcripts.

 

[traderjake]

Was it "fair" in the PSA merger?

No.

 

[Zone5]

No.

OK. Then can I assume that in the interest of "fairness", that you have only bid the a/c category, seat and status which would have been afforded to you, had a more "fair" slotting by relative position ruled the day after the PSA merger?

seajay

 

[BoeingBoy]

This how it went down with the Passenger Service Agents

Is there a point in there somewhere? I couldn't find anything that referred to a merger with anyone.

Jim

 

[Piedmont1984]

Wrong. Dead wrong. Faction 5 has stopped DOH and beyond that, faction 5 can care less. We're sick and tired of trying to talk sense into the East. All the harm that could be realized by the West has been realized. We gain little in the way of a joint contract as so much money has to go East to bring the West up to parity. Given the absolute incompetence of the NAC, many of the benefits in the West contract are sure to be gutted. Plus, we like being based out of PHX and not commuting across three times zones. Life is good. For once in the past six years we're comfortable. We're content to sit back and watch the East tear themselves apart. Some find that entertaining but most just don't care what you all do because no matter what we say, you won't listen. Eff it. We're done.

Sorry, don't believe you. Unless of course you belong to faction #6 🙂

 

[traderjake]

OK. Then can I assume that in the interest of "fairness", that you have only bid the a/c category, seat and status which would have been afforded to you, had a more "fair" slotting by relative position ruled the day after the PSA merger?

What are you talking about? I was Piedmont. I got screwed by the USAir and PSA SLIs.

 

[aquagreen73s]

Sorry, don't believe you. Unless of course you belong to faction #6 🙂

Whatever. I just fly the line four days a week and talk to lots of West pilots.

 

[N924PS]

The pilots that voted for USAPA get the credit.
Hate

We would likely be at the same place even if ALPA, Teamsters, happened to be our Union de Jour.

 

[N924PS]

What are you talking about? I was Piedmont. I got screwed by the USAir and PSA SLIs.

Did the parties involved agree to the process?

Did the parties involved accept the result?

 

[Zone5]

No.

How could that be? A SLI in accordance with ALPA merger policy! "Unfair"! 😱

Can you acknowledge that if ALPA got it "wrong" with the PSA merger, just maybe, they got it "wrong" with the NIC? Only seems like a logical possibility, now that you have acknowledged a past mistake of theirs.

The only "fair" definition of a merger of two pilot groups I've ever agreed with personally, is one that pisses off both sides roughly equally. Until and unless the powers that be figure out a way to "massage" the NIC, in some manner, to achieve a result considered by a majority of both pilot groups, to equally suck, then it won't be "fair".

seajay