US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Code Name V]

Iclubbabyseals,

Can you show me where I said anything was a done deal? I bet you can't.

USA320Pilot

Not just once but time and again. Along with anything else you could pass on as a given from your 'credible sources'. You fancied yourself an insider but you were and are nothing but a tool. Your credibility is non existent and it all started with UAL. You're a joke and that reputation will never be forgotten. But keep spewing your BS. There are still some westies that haven't figured you out yet and might blow up your hat size when they agree with your rhetoric.

V

 

[Code Name V]

Sorry pal, you don't get to steal jobs from the West just because we worked for a airline that got cut in half.

Hey traitor, why don't you just move west and join their ranks. Maybe then you can feel vilified and honorable and teach the rest of us a lesson of ethics by putting your money where your mouth is. In the meantime why don't you enlighten us and tell us why it is so honorable that the westies take our attrition? I'll but you get a lot of support in your cockpits unless you dummy up.

V

 

[traderjake]

Hey traitor, why don't you just move west and join their ranks. Maybe then you can feel vilified and honorable and teach the rest of us a lesson of ethics by putting your money where your mouth is. In the meantime why don't you enlighten us and tell us why it is so honorable that the westies take our attrition? I'll but you get a lot of support in your cockpits unless you dummy up.

Why don't you just do what's right?

I try to talk about this with every Captain I fly with and more than half agree with me about USAPA.

 

[cactusboy53]

Hey traitor, why don't you just move west and join their ranks. Maybe then you can feel vilified and honorable and teach the rest of us a lesson of ethics by putting your money where your mouth is. In the meantime why don't you enlighten us and tell us why it is so honorable that the westies take our attrition? I'll but you get a lot of support in your cockpits unless you dummy up.

V

Pssssst! Here's your enlightenment: It's not YOUR attrition! Just like my 6.5 year upgrade that has yet to happen (11 years & counting). That ship sailed in September 2005, and then again finally in May of 2007.

I don't know if you have been paying attention, but our little union has got some SERIOUS PROBLEMS facing them. Cleary has spent USAPA into a RED HOLE (I would have called it BLACK, but we are in big financial trouble). The legal firm that assured a slam dunk w/ DOH is waltzing away with 10,000,000+ in billable hours. The new legal team is frantically trying to undo the damages caused.

What has happened is over 4 years of delay in wages, time off and contract improvements that will NEVER be regained. USAPA & its supporters have done nothing but set in stone what pariahs you are in the industry.

The courts will finish this up for the simple reason that you can not be trusted, nor held to your word. See you in the funny papers!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Pssssst! Here's your enlightenment: It's not YOUR attrition! Just like my 6.5 year upgrade that has yet to happen (11 years & counting). That ship sailed in September 2005, and then again finally in May of 2007.

I don't know if you have been paying attention, but our little union has got some SERIOUS PROBLEMS facing them. Cleary has spent USAPA into a RED HOLE (I would have called it BLACK, but we are in big financial trouble). The legal firm that assured a slam dunk w/ DOH is waltzing away with 10,000,000+ in billable hours. The new legal team is frantically trying to undo the damages caused.

What has happened is over 4 years of delay in wages, time off and contract improvements that will NEVER be regained. USAPA & its supporters have done nothing but set in stone what pariahs you are in the industry.

The courts will finish this up for the simple reason that you can not be trusted, nor held to your word. See you in the funny papers!

Financial trouble? REALLY! PRAY TELL!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Pssssst! Here's your enlightenment: It's not YOUR attrition! Just like my 6.5 year upgrade that has yet to happen (11 years & counting). That ship sailed in September 2005, and then again finally in May of 2007.

I don't know if you have been paying attention, but our little union has got some SERIOUS PROBLEMS facing them. Cleary has spent USAPA into a RED HOLE (I would have called it BLACK, but we are in big financial trouble). The legal firm that assured a slam dunk w/ DOH is waltzing away with 10,000,000+ in billable hours. The new legal team is frantically trying to undo the damages caused.

What has happened is over 4 years of delay in wages, time off and contract improvements that will NEVER be regained. USAPA & its supporters have done nothing but set in stone what pariahs you are in the industry.

The courts will finish this up for the simple reason that you can not be trusted, nor held to your word. See you in the funny papers!

Under seperate ops EAST attrition is well EAST, Keep counting, it will give you something to do!

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

Why don't you just do what's right?

I try to talk about this with every Captain I fly with and more than half agree with me about USAPA.

I agreed with you too so you would just shut your mouth and do your job!

 

[Pi brat]

I got a good laugh 5 weeks ago when you said the LOA93 decision was just a few days away.

Have you been laughing at the westies for the last 11 months that have been saying the same?

 

[cleardirect]

Financial trouble? REALLY! PRAY TELL!

You had better find a clue quick. usapa is running red.

All that money that you guys thought would stay in house is gone.$10 million in dues does not go very far when you spend $11 million.

 

[Pi brat]

Pi Brat,

Two questions.

1. When have I been wrong?

2. What do you think of John Brookman's LOA 93 testimony? Did he lie when he wrote his ALPA PIT LEC letter to the pilots stating he recommended a "no" vote for LOA 93 because there were no snap backs or did he lie to Board of Arbitration during the LOA 93 arbitration?

Click here to read the story.

USA320Pilot

Are you kidding? A better question would be what I your correct/incorrect statement ratio because you go to great efforts to qualify your theories. UCTs, United merger, come quickly to mind. One thing you have never answered is my question of how a question can be a fact! I don't know anyone that gives your writing much credit.

I wouldn't know John Brookman if I saw him, so how would I know? It could be that he was giving his OPINION, then later was corrected. I have no idea, you probably don't either, but when has that ever stopped you?

 

[Pi brat]

Yes to a point.

The issues of the east furloughed pilots came up and using the promises by both Lakefield and Parker in the very beginning that no furloughed pilot would EVER displace or be placed ahead of an active pilot we took the position of Mr. Odel being the very bottom pilot would remain at the bottom of active pilots before all furloughs. Now before you get all upset and start screaming, there is more to this. There were no plans by the company at that time to hire AND no pilots were planned to be recalled. The west even at that time had interviewed pilots just one month prior to the merger announcement and had pilots in class as well as in a pool. The time came when the company did need more pilots and a decision was made that the furloughed pilots should be given the opportunity to come back. Now keep in mind Pi that we in the west had no obligations to these furloughed pilots what so ever yet we agreed with this concept and again thinking we were dealing with honorable people here basically flushed our pool and took on east pilots out west. This move came back to haunt us in the end as the very things that Parker and lakefield promised would never happen did in fact happen. Furloughed pilots were placed ahead of active pilots. To this very day we still have this situation. Now I could go on and on about this but I am certain a person of your intelligence gets the picture.

Now like I said before you dont have to take my word for it but at the very least investigate for yourself. It doesnt take much in this situation to point out who is lying to you and who is telling you the truth. The west still has pilots who were active before this merger on furlough while every east pilot has been recalled and new hires are here ala third list'ers!!!

Injunction

Thanks for the answer. I cannot address the certifying of the list issues, but I do believe there is a guy on the Nic that was indeed dead when the list was published. If I can think of his name I will look.

As for Parker and Lakefield's "promise", I think you guys got it wrong. I believe the statement meant that they agreed on the principle of not bringing back a furloughed employee and giving him a working employees job, then furloughing that employee. Not that someone that was currently furloughed would never be SENIOR to a then currently working employee. I'm pretty sure Parker even said this in a crew news. If they had promised it, then agreed to ALPA merger policy, then those promises would have been in conflict as there was no prohibition on placing furloughed pilots senior to active pilots, and it has happened in the past. Basically they promised no bump no flush.

By taking the line in the sand it kept some other innovative solutions from being fully considered and helped seal a LOS proposal. Not trying to lay the blame at west pilots feet, obviously we should have presented it to your merger committee anyway, but if someone tells you they won't even consider something do you waste that time?

Water under the bridge.

 

[88 B.T.D.]

It could be that he was giving his OPINION, then later was corrected. I have no idea, you probably don't either, but when has that ever stopped you?

If you read Brookmans letter it says "no change in pay for 5 years"- Jan 10 and "no changing the contract (other items than pay) for at least 2 years after". Siegel cut him off after that, but there is really no inconsistancy.

 

[USA320Pilot]

PiBrat.

Stop misrepresenting information.

1. I never said any of the proposed UAL transaction were a done deal. I said, maybe, maybe not over-and-over again, which you clearly leave out. Furthermore, I have posted media articles after I announced the proposed deals after my comments. Why do you leave that information out of your discussion?

2. I don't own or operate a website.

3. As far as Brookman's contradictory testimony I once again provided facts and evidence. When would now be a good time for you to do the same instead of useless banter?

USA320Pilot

 

[Pi brat]

No.

I was trying to illustate that the East knows C&Rs are worthless because they won't even consider putting them around the Nicolau Award.

That is not true Jake. Most guys I fly with do not want to steal west jobs and they truly believe that the current C&R will protect the west pilots and allow them to have what they had and allow us to have what we have. I bring up some potential scenarios where that wouldn't be true and most listen to me. The problem is that we have gotten to such a state of "FU, no FU" that everyone pretty much shrugs and is waiting for it to play out.

It bothers me that you make such blank statements like that, particularly since you are an F/O and probably don't have the chance to throw this around with junior F/Os like I do.

 

[aquagreen73s]

What an excellent summary:

First the union sues 18 of it's own members, and appeals when it is thrown out of court, only to be thrown out again. Then the union sues the company. The company then sues the union. Then the union sues it's lawyer. Now the lawyer is suing the union.

The union vice president is first sleeping with one of the lawyers, but is now living with her. She is fired by the lawyers for sleeping with the union officer (client). The union fires the lawyers. The union hires new lawyers, and the fired lawyer who is sleeping with the union officer now works for the new lawyers.

Meanwhile, the union hires yet more lawyers to "audit" the billing statements of the first lawyers, presumably in an effort to discover grounds to sue the original lawyers.

The "new" lawyers say the original lawyers created a "mess", and now are preparing to defend against the suit filed by the company against the union.

All the while....the CBA negotiations are stagnant, except the three sections completed, and the new lawyers also have to keep the union from violating a Federal Injunction against the union. BUT...in the interest of representing the membership, the union pushes a proposal across the table costing $1.2B, and seems flabbergasted the company laughed all the way out of the room.

Got popcorn?