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US Pilots Labor Discussion

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Nic, what about that pesky CBL that mandates DOH with C and R's? A change to that document might pass in PHX, but it won't in the rest of our crew bases.

As to needing a contract to "pass the West"...the other crew bases will pass the appropriate contract, when and if it ever comes to vote.

RR
Unions can put a lot of things in their C&BL. It does not make them enforceable. How about if usapa put in the C&BL that US Air pilots will be the highest paid pilot on the planet?

The C&BL says DOH with C&R. In the next merger does AA or DAL or anyone have to follow them? NO!

What has usapa said from the beginning? That seniority is negotiatable. What you guys always forget is the other side of the table. The C&BL don't apply.

As far as pass the west. If you don't need us then all of you eat guys can stop asked for our help and blaming us for not having a contract. this is all up to the east. This is your union your NAC.
 
Well if the LOA 93 pay rate arbitration goes the way of USAPA, I guess a sincere "Thank You" is in order to the West for not demanding pay parity for the East.
Why are you still complaining about parity and blaming the west? usapa has been in charge for almost 3 years. Why has usapa not gotten you parity? The west has nothing to do with it and no way to stop you getting it.

Blame usapa.
 
The C&BL says DOH with C&R. In the next merger does AA or DAL or anyone have to follow them? NO!


You are correct because Seniority is now just where you are on a List. It would be fun to watch this place merge with Virgin America, Jet Blue, Air Tran or even Republic. At least that would preserve a persons relative seniority.
 
Why are you still complaining about parity and blaming the west? usapa has been in charge for almost 3 years. Why has usapa not gotten you parity? The west has nothing to do with it and no way to stop you getting it.

Blame usapa.


I'm not "blaming" the West. I'm simply stating a sincere "Thank You" is in order. I could care less about parity. Greedy pilots East and West are why we have no parity and no contract in concert with a Management that knows all too well what makes East and West tick, LMAO!!!!!!!

I could care less about the final outcome. One thing is for certain, we are and will be the most dysfunctional pilot group on the planet.

Fire away!!!!!!
 
Nic, what about that pesky CBL that mandates DOH with C and R's? A change to that document might pass in PHX, but it won't in the rest of our crew bases.

As to needing a contract to "pass the West"...the other crew bases will pass the appropriate contract, when and if it ever comes to vote.

RR

Although I do not believe the CBLs are controlling, because they were written after completion of the Nic and would therefore only apply to any future usapa/usapa merger, (a merger likely to never take place), the CBLs could be re-written to conform with current McCaskill-Bond verbage. Something like, "provide uniform principles of seniority integration based on the principles of DOH, LOS, and status, with adequate C&Rs to protect pre-merger career attainment, while adhering to the rights guaranteed under AM 3 and 13, as provided by the M-B legislation."

By "pass the West", I meant two things. First, that there would be enough combined votes that the contract could get ratified, and second, that there would not be enough support on the West to sue and force an injunction keeping status quo.( I know you have the votes to pass any contract you want, what you don't have is the legal means to get it implemented). i.e. a fence around the original 330s would not piss off the West to the point that we would pass on a decent contract. Also, it would probably buy enough east votes from the guys who fear being locked out of the a/c by the Nic.

But go ahead and try to bully the DOH thing right thru to a ratification vote. You will end up with the Nic, unmodified, to its terms.

One other thing, if usapa waits until the company's DJ ruling is answered, too late, it is the Nic, unmodified. If usapa waits until losing LOA93 grievence, probably same scenario, too late.
 
No. I meant that the time to "make things work" was before it went to arbitration, and the obligation to make things work (and to follow the ALPA merger policy) was on both sides.

The East seems to have wanted (and still wants) the West to negotiate with itself. Any proposal made by the West is/was greeted with, "Nope, your idea is not DOH. Go back and try again." This is especially misguided because a DOH proposal would not have been consistent with the ALPA merger policy, which both sides had the obligation to follow.



Because the East had, and continues to have, unreasonable expectations and a wrong understanding of the merger, arbitration and legal processes; and because the East has been getting very bad advice from its attorneys and from USAPA leadership.
Folks, there you have it another addition of "SERVICE CART SIDEBAR" , next episode coming to a coach class galley near you! MM
 
You are correct because Seniority is now just where you are on a List. It would be fun to watch this place merge with Virgin America, Jet Blue, Air Tran or even Republic. At least that would preserve a persons relative seniority.

You left out Spirit.

Friend of mine said he flew Parker to DTW a few weeks back, now AWA320 says he had Kerr on a DTW-PHX flight last week...hmmm...does Franke still run the show over there?
 
You left out Spirit.

Friend of mine said he flew Parker to DTW a few weeks back, now AWA320 says he had Kerr on a DTW-PHX flight last week...hmmm...does Franke still run the show over there?


Yeah, I did forget Spirit.

Maybe Parker and Kerr were applying for snow removal jobs with the current winter weather LOL, seriously who knows. Not sure about Franke either.

For any hope of coming together, both sides need to come off their positions. I don't see that happening.
 
For any hope of coming together, both sides need to come off their positions. I don't see that happening.
There is no West. So you're right, there is no compromise to be had. USAPA took care of that. It's another corner you Angry F/Os have painted yourselves into.
 
There is no West. So you're right, there is no compromise to be had. USAPA took care of that. It's another corner you Angry F/Os have painted yourselves into.


First off, I'm NOT an angry FO.

There was NOT any compromise on the West side before USAPA as stated by West posters on this Board.

But you are correct, "there is no compromise to be had".

This can drag on for an eternity for all I care. Debt free, retirement set, even with LOA 93.

Happy Holidays!!!
 
Whatever. It's only money I guess. The problem for the Angry F/O club is this: can they get the rest of East pilots to go along with what you propose? Keep in mind that a majority of them are either (i) already captains or (ii) within the last 5-7 years of their working career whether captain or F/O, or (iii) going to be newhires who have nothing to gain either way seniority goes, but everything to gain by getting off LOA93. More power to you if you can hold the line with those facts.
 
Whatever. It's only money I guess. The problem for the Angry F/O club is this: can they get the rest of East pilots to go along with what you propose? Keep in mind that a majority of them are either (i) already captains or (ii) within the last 5-7 years of their working career whether captain or F/O, or (iii) going to be newhires who have nothing to gain either way seniority goes, but everything to gain by getting off LOA93. More power to you if you can hold the line with those facts.


It's more than money. It's schedule and when you can get vacation. I would venture to say that many East Pilot's look far beyond an immediate, perhaps permanent pay rate raise.

Compromise will lead to a solution. Even Kirby suggested the West should have done that. But whatever right? It appears as if neither side will negotiate. I don't know what the final outcome will be and would not bet on either outcome.
 
You left out Spirit.

Friend of mine said he flew Parker to DTW a few weeks back, now AWA320 says he had Kerr on a DTW-PHX flight last week...hmmm...does Franke still run the show over there?

Thats not it. Parker, Kerr and Isome are all from DTW. Kerr went to see the MSU V UofM hockey game

AWA320
 
Compromise will lead to a solution. Even Kirby suggested the West should have done that. But whatever right? It appears as if neither side will negotiate. I don't know what the final outcome will be and would not bet on either outcome.
You keep saying "west." Look around and tell me where you see a "West" bargaining agent? We did have a separate MEC, but you Angry F/Os saw to it that separate ratification and a separate bargaining representative went away. Well, you got your wish and now you're starting to see the unintended consequences of that wish. Perhaps you all should have gotten the full story from a competent attorney before launching yourselves into the Nic Abyss. Your choices are either LOA 93 ad infinitim or the Nic and an extra 3-4k a month for captains. Your choice.
 
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