US Pilots Labor Discussion

[aquagreen73s]

Show me another airline that had 16 year furloughs?

And lived to tell about it . . .

Without the merger, they would have been another statistic.

 

[No Land Green]

I thought that your point was that a pilot who didn't have a job at the time of the merger (i.e. furloughed) should be and considers him/herself as bring a job to the merger. If that's a misunderstanding on my part I apologize.



Yes you did say that but my "nonsensical" statement is merely an extension of what you did say - that a pilot furloughed at the time of the merger should be considered as bringing a job to the merger. It's a short step from there to those who haven't been hired yet claiming that they brought a job to the merger.

BTW, I don't know where you got your numbers in an earlier post, but the Nic list has the bottom 1750 East/former CEL pilots on the bottom of the list - Colello and those below him who hadn't permanently left the East list as of when the Nic list was constructed. The East's preferred solution would put the majority of West pilots at the bottom of the list with only the 1997/1998 East hires mixed in among the more senior of those West pilots. I.e., the company furlough of East pilots "stapled" ~25% of the East pilots while USAPA would staple ~80% of West pilots.

Jim

Numbers came from the NIC Award. If they are wrong, NIC got them wrong.

Obviously the West definition of "staple" is not the same as the East definition of "staple", like what happened to the "staple"d Empire Pilots.

 

[No Land Green]

It is academic anyway because there is no way to compromise. No west to make a deal with. I am just curious what the east thinks we want. What you think is a compromise. I have not heard anything yet.

You have answered your own questions above.

 

[No Land Green]

Without the merger, they would have been another statistic.

I always chuckle when I see this.

 

[aquagreen73s]

I always chuckle when I see this.

Should it be put out for a vote; will that legitimize it then?

 

[No Land Green]

Oh, so does putting it out for a majority vote legitimize USAPA's actions in your mind? I guess then the only problem with the Piedmont stapling of Empire was that all the pilots didn't get to vote? Same for AMR-TWA? A vote would have legitimized those travesties?

Well I guess that depends on democracy or dictatorship. I'm sure we have different definitions of those two terms.

Your second statement, yeah maybe so since ALPA was the sponsor at the time.

Same for your last statement.........

 

[aquagreen73s]

Well I guess that depends on democracy or dictatorship. I'm sure we have different definitions of those two terms.

Your second statement, yeah maybe so since ALPA was the sponsor at the time.

Same for your last statement.........

So both travesties would have been legitimized had there been a majority vote?

 

[cleardirect]

All numbers taken from the NIC AWARD Document, that NIC Published. I stated that in my original post. So if they are wrong, NIC got them wrong.

Phil Carey, East Merger Committee Memeber told me the same "959" number also. Funny but most people on the East don't know about the "active 959" stapled below Dave O'Dell.

They don’t know it because it is not true. I think old Phil may have been ummm fibbing. This is the guy that was given the job to get you DOH right. Could it be that he is trying to shift blame? This is from the Nicolau award go back and read it. As you can see Monda was the junior active pilot, Colello was the senior furlough pilot. O’Dell sits between them. Varini is the last one on the list. He is 1750 number below O’Dell. This is one of the most frustrating parts about this merger. The misinformation and out right lying that has happen from the east leadership to the pilots. That 959 is just not true. The information is available but it seems no east pilots wants to look for or believe it when presented in black and white.

US Airways had a grand total of 5098 pilots on its seniority list, 1691 of which (33%) were on furlough.1
1 The 1691 include 105 so-called CEL (Combined Eligibility List) pilots who never flew on the mainline, to be discussed below, and 212 other Mid-Atlantic Division (MDA) pilots. Though listed as active in a US Airways summary sheet, they are carried as furloughed on the US Airways Certified 5/ 1/05 List.

Their dates of hire (DOH) ranged from 4/20/66 to 6/19/00, with the most senior furloughed pilot (Colello) having been hired in 1988.2
2 The number 3303 is Colello's Pilot Position Number on the US Airways May 19, 2005 Certified Seniority List. His Seniority Number at that time was 3538.

4768 33068 MONDA J
4769 P3173 ODELL D
4770 33069 COLELLO D

6520 76474 VARINI E

 

[No Land Green]

Should it be put out for a vote; will that legitimize it then?

Yeah, when you look at which side of the Mississippi is more profitable, I think we should, but I think I already know the answer. We carry more checked bags on the East LMAO!!!!!!!

 

[sumadarson]

Without the merger, they would have been another statistic.

When you die, they should give you an enema, then they could bury you in a match box. Prove anything in the following video wrong. Prove your spin, how you saved anyone.

What america west pilots do not want you to know.

 

[No Land Green]

So both travesties would have been legitimized had there been a majority vote?

Quite possible Aqua, why you don't think so?

 

[AWA320]

The furloughed pilots and their families were forced to give up more than anyone to save the airline. They are a large part of the reason you and I have a job today. Using them for stepping stones to advance one's seniority without paying one's dues is wrong. We all would like a free ride. Call it....career expectations. It could happen to you!

Ok you can not make this claim and state that a west pilot has not paid his dues simply because his airline was not furloughing and yours was when the two merged. The furloughed pilot ws given no choice he was just placed on unemployement. No one is using them as stepping stones but the fact of the matter is they did not bring a job with them and aasking one who did to give up is seat is just wrong.

AWA320

 

[aquagreen73s]

Yeah, when you look at which side of the Mississippi is more profitable, I think we should, but I think I already know the answer. We carry more checked bags on the East LMAO!!!!!!!

Well, Piedmont and AMR made a heck of a lot more money than Empire and TWA, respectively. So, both of those travesties were in fact warranted, because Piedmont and AMR made more money? Correct?

 

[AWA320]

320,

"staple almost 90% of the west pilots" below the bottom East Pilot E. Varini hired 8/30/2004?

Was that the East's offer? Are you sure you are correct? That definitely is not fair at all.

It was DOH which would have given a guy with 18 years at AAA on the property super seniority at the merged carrier. I say super seniority because that 18yr pilot though he had been there 18 yrs he/she was a Jr east first officer on the day the merger was announced. While and 18yr west pilot was a senior captain.

AWA320

 

[No Land Green]

They don’t know it because it is not true. I think old Phil may have been ummm fibbing. This is the guy that was given the job to get you DOH right. Could it be that he is trying to shift blame? This is from the Nicolau award go back and read it. As you can see Monda was the junior active pilot, Colello was the senior furlough pilot. O’Dell sits between them. Varini is the last one on the list. He is 1750 number below O’Dell. This is one of the most frustrating parts about this merger. The misinformation and out right lying that has happen from the east leadership to the pilots. That 959 is just not true. The information is available but it seems no east pilots wants to look for or believe it when presented in black and white.



4768 33068 MONDA J
4769 P3173 ODELL D
4770 33069 COLELLO D

6520 76474 VARINI E

Page 14 of the NIC Award........West Proposal section. Did you guys make a mistake?

No Phil wasn't "phibbing" he stated the same number. It's in the NIC award too.