US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

I never PM'd you back.

Sure you dd. You apologized for accusing me of using your JetBlue buddy's pic.

It's OK. Let it go.

 

[flybynite]

Liar liar ....Pants on fire...

 

[Move2CLT]

Liar liar ....Pants on fire...

You tell your jetBlue buddy yet?

 

[SparrowHawk]

Beam me up Scotty, No intelligent conversation on the last 2 pages.

 

[MUTATIS MUTANDIS]

MM
How many times has our demise been predicted since you and I have been here.

BTW, I only have 5 years left.

You cracked the code! For us toast in 5 years!

 

[nic4us]

Wye River was not meant to go to mediation or arbitration either. It was a final attempt by ALPA to get both sides to reach a mutual and consensual solution. One side or the other didn't have the will or the motivation to reach such a solution.

That was 4 years ago.

Wye River was an epic DFR failure on ALPA's part.

You had a national union violating its own policy to put pressure on one local to benefit itself by not loosing the joint property.

Never had ALPA renegged on its own process, and come up with extra-bylaw solutions to an already settled dispute. Forming the Rice committee, holding meetings like Wye River, pressuring the West MEC to take the DFR for them. What a bunch of lowlife cowards. Frankly, I am somewhat happy the east tossed ALPA.

For the same reasons, and many others, usapa cannot give the West autonomy, just so the West has liability for a usapa cramdown solution.


The bottom line with Wye River is that it was not intended to find a solution to the Nic, it was intended to find a solution for ALPA national.

 

[nic4us]

That's because each side had it's separate legal representatives under ALPA and thus a consensual solution was a possibility (but only a possibility). Note that ALPA never said they'd force a solution on either side - it knew that that was sure to produce nothing but years of court battles and millions of $$ going to lawyers. The east, in all their "wisdom" replaced ALPA and elected USAPA, which immediately made a consensual solution an impossibility. So east and west have had what ALPA knew would happen all along - nothing but time and $$ wasted in an effort for force one side's solution on the other side.

Jim

I get the context of your post, however I would point out that PRATER refused to follow ALPA merger policy and withheld the list from the company.

In effect, PRATER told the West MEC you will negotiate something else, otherwise I will go outside the ALPA C&BLs and not submit this list, once a modified list is complete, I will then submit that. In effect saying he would not submit the Nic.

It was not until the Executive counsel ordered that the list be submitted that indeed Rice delivered the list to the company. Again notice that Prater did not deliver the Nic.

One final thing. The list was delivered in the eleventh hour, just prior to the representational election. Had ALPA not delivered that list prior to being thrown off the property, the West pilots would have had a valid DFR claim against ALPA, even after they were replaced by usapa. Same thing the TWA pilots now have while being represented by the APA.

 

[fatherabraham]

East alpa forming east usapa carves the NIC IN STONE with a joint contract with lcc or any merger going forward via the TA.

OTTER

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ooM-RGUTe2E&feature=youtube_gdata_player

 

[Piedmont1984]

Wye River was an epic DFR failure on ALPA's part.

You had a national union violating its own policy to put pressure on one local to benefit itself by not loosing the joint property.

Never had ALPA renegged on its own process, and come up with extra-bylaw solutions to an already settled dispute. Forming the Rice committee, holding meetings like Wye River, pressuring the West MEC to take the DFR for them. What a bunch of lowlife cowards. Frankly, I am somewhat happy the east tossed ALPA.

For the same reasons, and many others, usapa cannot give the West autonomy, just so the West has liability for a usapa cramdown solution.


The bottom line with Wye River is that it was not intended to find a solution to the Nic, it was intended to find a solution for ALPA national.

I thought it was a rather creative attempt to find a solution to what ultimately turned out to be an intractable problem. Had it worked, I believe some of you would have moved2clt by now and some of us would not still be commuting2clt.

I f ALPA had the authority to explore an innovative approach, regardless of ALPA's ulterior motives, USAPA should be able to do likewise.

For those who argue it has never been done, I would respond that our mutual predicament is unprecedented.

You know how outgoing presidents, in the last days of their administration, allow pardons to certain individuals? If Cleary had the cooperation and support of the majority of the BPR, and granted the PHX domicile the kind of autonomy I have described (and received a green light from the NMB apparently), it would put the Nic in play again, place Ferguson on the hot seat and constitute perhaps the most constructive, progressive and boldest act that he would have done as president. Remember that Cleary attempted a watered down version of this late last year. No surprise that Ferguson wanted no part of it.

 

[prechilill]

You know how outgoing presidents, in the last days of their administration, allow pardons to certain individuals? If Cleary had the cooperation and support of the majority of the BPR, and granted the PHX domicile the kind of autonomy I have described (and received a green light from the NMB apparently), it would put the Nic in play again, place Ferguson on the hot seat and constitute perhaps the most constructive, progressive and boldest act that he would have done as president. Remember that Cleary attempted a watered down version of this late last year. No surprise that Ferguson wanted no part of it.

Who cares about being illegal, by gosh you have a terrific idea! Do ya think the judge will buy it?

 

[traderjake]

I would respond that our mutual predicament is unprecedented

Yes, never before has a labor group attempted to weisel out of a mutually agreed upon arbitration because they didn't like the result.

Our unethical behavior is unprecedented.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Who cares about being illegal, by gosh you have a terrific idea! Do ya think the judge will buy it?

If I were the judge I would buy it, just to clear some of my case load and get rid of this headache.

If USAPA received NMB permission, what exactly is illegal about granting a domicile increased authority and autonomy on a one time basis? It's not like something was being taken from PHX, quite the opposite.

 

[prechilill]

If I were the judge I would buy it, just to clear some of my case load and get rid of this headache.

If USAPA received NMB permission, what exactly is illegal about granting a domicile increased authority and autonomy on a one time basis? It's not like something was being taken from PHX, quite the opposite.

Well, for starters, how about giving us authority on two super special times, just in case we need to use it again. What do you think??? If need be, we can just invent a problem like you guys did to merit the addition...

 

[luvn737s]

You know how outgoing presidents, in the last days of their administration, allow pardons to certain individuals? If Cleary had the cooperation and support of the majority of the BPR, and granted the PHX domicile the kind of autonomy I have described (and received a green light from the NMB apparently), it would put the Nic in play again, place Ferguson on the hot seat and constitute perhaps the most constructive, progressive and boldest act that he would have done as president. Remember that Cleary attempted a watered down version of this late last year. No surprise that Ferguson wanted no part of it.

Ferguson knows that when he is elected president of USAPA, he will have a duty to represent the interests of ALL US pilots not just the ones from his "tribe". He is not so naieve as to think he won't have to build coalitions and consensus among BPR reps and that may involve compromise (to the extent that it is legally possible - and in some cases it just isn't). This is the path to an industry leading and LEGAL contract.

He stands to gain nothing by stoking the fires of antipathy between the 2 pilot groups. The east candidates cannot say the same thing. The east candidates know that delay is their only promise and that progress would put their power in jeopardy.

 

[Piedmont1984]

Well, for starters, how about giving us authority on two super special times, just in case we need to use it again. What do you think??? If need be, we can just invent a problem like you guys did to merit the addition...

Okay, so it would not be illegal. See, we're making progress.

I'll think about the rest.