US Pilots Labor Discussion

[Move2CLT]

Most folks think is doesn't.

Instead they think it accomplishes the stated objectives of ALPA merer policy.

The objectives of the ALPA merger policy were met with the Nic.

No C & R's can be added to the SLI as it would trigger DFR II.

There is precedence.

Let it go and move on.

 

[BoeingBoy]

I guess superhero could have edited his post after you quoted him, so I will give you that benefit of the doubt, even though you never return it. That said, he also said this, that you failed to quote: "(under threat of a ripe DFR..my words.)" Kind of changes the meaning, doesn't it?

Actually, he didn't that I can tell. Here it is in it's entirety (emphasis mine):

I was one of the pilots "rearranged" upward by Rakestraw. That was an issue dealing with "Scab pilots" and a win given to ALPA for putting them in their place. The argument there is not just does the union have to rearrange a list, rather "is it for the good of the greater group." Scabs should go to the bottom. The argument still helps USAPA. Lucky for your group and Crimi USAPA is not pursuing that legal option. The Empire folks were screwed almost 30 years ago. Not USAPA's problem. Sad. What logic would you see using scabs being put at the bottom vs. Empire guys and gals moving to a new number after decades for being on one list certain?

Putting the Empire guys in their rightful place was a lost cause. I simply don't choose to argue it anymore.

USAPA does not owe you "consistent" behavior, only legal behavior. Don't argue the particulars of "pre merger expectations" with me, I could care less. You get to make your argument under the USAPA CBL and that's it.

RR

You can look for "(under threat of a ripe DFR..my words.)" if you want but I don't see it in the post I was responding to.

RR made the comment you refer to after my post that you tried to make wrong - hard to reply to a post before it's made...

Jim

 

[Phoenix]

It's not naivete and any one that knows me can tell you I'm not exactly an optimist. I say I straddle the fence between pessimism and realism. At times I am optimistic that things will get better, then worse. ;-)

The only reason I say that Parker may be willing to work with us is to further HIS goal. We should be ready to exploit his need for a change.

When management needs us to accept their offer to be exploited they will know where to find us. For decades Pilots have been chasing management like groupies chase rock stars, and for some reason pilots still keep on believing that with enough "effort" we can persuade management to work with us.

The guy that sings about "free milk and a cow" doesn't worry about girls lining up to go back stage. Not sure Doug needs to fear being too lonely either.

 

[fifidriver]

fifi,

My point in the questions to the west guys is that I see them making some of the same mistakes that I have witnessed the east making for 20+ years. It's not necessarily what CAN be done, but what should be done. I'd like to see more pragmatism from both sides.

With the west candidates I just don't believe their plan will work with level of alienation on the east. Just like the east's hasn't worked with the level of alienation on the west. We should learn that just because you CAN do something, doesn't mean you should. But, we don't. That's pretty much it. The west candidates have only heard me a little, the poor east guys have had me as a thorn in their side for years. They don't listen to me either.

But to completely honest, I've given up. I've been really frustrated with a lot of my ALPA loyalist friends that have refused to join and are watching from the sidelines, but I'm beginning to believe they got it right. We are in an impossible situation and the place will have to burn to the ground. Maybe there will be something left to rebuild with. We are going to get to the same place and they have saved themselves a lot of aggravation.

I wish the winners of the election luck. If the west team wins, I hope I'm wrong and in the next year or so I'm on here to tell them good luck and that I am enjoying my new industry leading contract and place and XX's seniority list.

Good luck to all of us, I think we are going to need it.

Hi Pi...
Sorry about the excessive PUI last night! A little too much Friday night fun. But going back to the issue at hand, I finally watched the campaign video and I see where you got the "promise" of an industry leading contract. I think that in this case you have to read between the lines. That is typical campaign speak. I'm sure that they did not mean to say that they will guarantee the same. They can't.
I can tell you this. I know Koontz and I have met Fergusen. They are "good people". Upstanding, honest and aside from the seniority issue, I can guarantee that they have only the best interests of both the East and West pilots at heart. I firmly believe that the only difference of any consequence between our groups, is seniority, or seniority related. We all want more pay, better schedules, healthcare, disability, etc.
Let me ask you this. What is important to you, and who do you think has the best chance of making it happen? If it is continued delay and obfuscation, (separate ops with associated costs) vote for more of the same. If it is moving forward, and I predict that it will probably have to include the NIC, (unadulterated), then maybe it's time to try something different. Cheers!!! Vote early, vote often!

 

[Phoenix]

Only the type of folk that do their scheming in the back of a van think that way.

Your disdain for the majority of pilots you work with is noted. Rest assured their crocodile tears for your deplorable persoanal pain are very real. If you promise to drive the bus we promise to jump under it.

 

[Move2CLT]

Your disdain for the majority of pilots you work with is noted. Rest assured their crocodile tears for your deplorable persoanal pain are very real. If you promise to drive the bus we promise to jump under it.

Majority? Hardly.

Most of the east is apathetic and withdrawn which is why your minority has control right now. But that's quickly changing and your two warring factions see this. With the third listers voting with the west, many easties not voting at all, we just may put your misery to an end sooner rather than later.

 

[high*flyer]

Callaway said..... If pragmatism was desired, and it's way too late now for this approach to work, then the east MEC should have come to the west MEC after May 1, 2007 and said something....

400 East pilots met with ALPA leadership and did just that!

 

[CallawayGolf]

Callaway said..... If pragmatism was desired, and it's way too late now for this approach to work, then the east MEC should have come to the west MEC after May 1, 2007 and said something....

400 East pilots met with ALPA leadership and did just that!

When you take a quote out of context you often fail to understand the meaning. What the east MEC did and what I suggested are two very different things. One would have had a chance of working and the other resulted in a total disaster. At this point it will be up to the courts or a newly elected west leadership of USAPA to straighten out the failures caused by the east.

 

[high*flyer]

Prater ineffectively tried to bring the west to the table, evident by his to often quoted statement" the west has won the lottery, but can't cash the ticket". An argument could be made that the west surely saw the direction things were going in, but made no effort to alter the course. I will agree its up to the courts now.

 

[ROACLT]

When you take a quote out of context you often fail to understand the meaning. What the east MEC did and what I suggested are two very different things. One would have had a chance of working and the other resulted in a total disaster. At this point it will be up to the courts or a newly elected west leadership of USAPA to straighten out the failures caused by the east.

Given the situation, would you really want West pilots elected officers knowing they can't do what the promise? You simply will have your BPR vote East vs West to continue the current legal strategy and thus only create more dissension with the BPR at odds with the officers. All the power is vested in the membership and their BPR representatives. An 8-3 dynamic on your BPR won't go away simply because West pilots might get elected. In short order there would likely be successful officer recall attempts all the while the disunity between East and West would only increase. If you think the unity that would engender will get you your industry leading contract, there is a bridge for Brooklyn on sale for a dollar.

 

[lynyrdskynyrd]

Prater ineffectively tried to bring the west to the table, evident by his to often quoted statement" the west has won the lottery, but can't cash the ticket". An argument could be made that the west surely saw the direction things were going in, but made no effort to alter the course. I will agree its up to the courts now.

That's one way to put it. The west was at the table, the east pulled out. Prater tried to get us to throw ourselves under the bus to end the east power play and bring them 'back to the table.' What did you expect the west to do as it was being disrespected by the other two parties(alpo and the east)? Insisting on placing the west under duress was just a stupid move, period.

The table is where we all should have been all along. The table being JNC.

 

[Phoenix]

Given the situation, would you really want West pilots elected officers knowing they can't do what the promise? You simply will have your BPR vote East vs West to continue the current legal strategy and thus only create more dissension with the BPR at odds with the officers. All the power is vested in the membership and their BPR representatives. An 8-3 dynamic on your BPR won't go away simply because West pilots might get elected. In short order there would likely be successful officer recall attempts all the while the disunity between East and West would only increase. If you think the unity that would engender will get you your industry leading contract, there is a bridge for Brooklyn on sale for a dollar.

If there are any interested in unity they would have been advocates of parity. Sadly ALPA tied two cats together by their tails and beat both with a stick before throwing them in the water.

 

[Walmartgreeter]

deleted

 

[BoeingBoy]

Greeter,

Good to see you back.

Jim

 

[Walmartgreeter]

Greeter,

Good to see you back.

Jim

You can call me Otis.